UK - police helmet-mounted cameras

[buckthesystem]

Must apologise for the messed up "bold type/ordinary type". Don't know what went wrong, I must have been in too much of a hurry to think about what I was doing. Tried to edit it, but it seems it is too late.

[eric]

BtS

Sorry I labelled you anti Bush not that I could blame you if you were, because he is not gaining any brownie points right now, but as the saying goes,'better the devil you know than the one you dont know'.

I am anti-the state forcing its agenda on the people. This is happening in every country - it is certainly happening in NZ, right?

Well I suppose it's happening here to a certain extent, but don't forget it was the people that voted this wretched party into power and it was the people that voted for this stupid MMP system and it was this govt that sold the telecommunications, the post offices the railways and road transport and all the rest if this county's assets and all the protest marches and hikois on parliament have been worthless except for the fart tax that the govt wanted to impose on the farmers and the chipping of working dogs.

However, I'm all in favour of more cops and more cameras. Why should oldies like myself and my wife be threatened with being invaded at home, because the cops have their hands full trying to stop youths killing themselves binge drinking and boy racers causing havoc, because they say they have the right. Why shouldn't we have border controls with dogs and every

device they can get to stop foreigners coming and going as they like. I'm not paranoid but I am suspicious of every outsider who crosses our borders, even if I do kmow that God is in control and I can see the outcome of the world in the long run.

I'm no pussy cat Buck. and I'm not a push-over, but desperate situations need desperate measures. You dont like the govt telling you what to do.....fair enough, but I dont want the rabble telling me what to do.

have a nice week end.

[CallMeBernard]

To be fair to Buck, he/ she (sorry, don't know your gender) these cameras are in the UK, not the US. So he/she 's not anti american, just anti-Brit. Less anti- Bush, more anti- Blair.

The British, as a whole, aren't that worried about these things. At least, amongst all my family, friends, work colleagues and random blokes I talk to in the pub, nobody is that concerned. People are more worried about getting assaulted or their cars vandalised. Actually, people seem more worried about house prices then they are about anything else.

The British police force, while not necessairily enjoying the full confidence of the British public to catch the criminals, is by and large trusted. Bear in mind that, unlike in other countries, we do not elect our police officials- they do not need to worry about appealing to voters, just about getting the job done. Our police force is still unarmed as a whole- something we are proud of.

There was a greater controversy over giving coppers pepper spray than there is over this.

Why don't you stop worrying over something which we are happy with? If we don't like it we'll vote out the Gov't, or the local council.

[buckthesystem]

Quote, eric: Well I suppose it's happening here to a certain extent, but don't forget it was the people that voted this wretched party into power and it was the people that voted for this stupid MMP system and it was this govt that sold the telecommunications, the post offices the railways and road transport and all the rest if this county's assets and all the protest marches and hikois on parliament have been worthless except for the fart tax that the govt wanted to impose on the farmers and the chipping of working dogs".

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I really don't know why people continue to vote for this "bunch of weirdo" government. I can only think of talking to my husband's grandmother about it a few years ago. She had the attitude that she always had and always would vote Labour, because "Micky Savage saved the world from after the depression", and she thought Labour of today was "the Micky Savage party" and always would be and she just couldn't get her head round anything else. When I said to her "but Micky Savage died in 1939" she looked totally blank as if she didn't believe it. My sister is a staunch Helen Clark supporter, and if anybody dares say anything against her beloved HC she will attack them "like a rabid dog". I have no idea of the reasoning behind that. A little while ago, after the publicity about Peter Davis being gay, and my jokingly making reference to the rumour/fact (whatever is appropriate) that Helen herself was also gay. I was getting emails from my sister every five minutes denying everything and getting quite "hot under the collar" about it. The only way we made our peace in the end was by me emailing her saying "how about we never discuss anything political about this country ever again and concentrate on church matters and family matters. Now our almost daily emails are quite friendly.

However, one thing I have to dispute. Sure, the people might have voted for MMP, but we were "sold" a completely different system to what was eventually imposed on us. Personally I voted against MMP because I didn't fully understand the system and I was (and still am) paranoid enough to guess that it would be abused by the incumbent government.

And again, we were told specifically that in another three years we would have a chance to "vote it out" if it turned out that we didn't like it. Sure enough, three years later the government announced that their select committee would be "reviewing it" and "five minutes later" they announced that they had reviewed it and MMP would stay. The fact that the select committee "found" that MMP (their version of MMP, that is) was a good thing, was a forgone conclusion because "turkeys never vote for an early Christmas". I wrote to Margaret Wilson, the then attorney-general, about it at the time, and her reply was we will make the decision because the public are too ill-informed, and then our review has found that MMP will stay because 'getting rid of it will not make parliamentarians behave any better in the house'. Now that has got to "take the cake" for the most ridiculous reply to a letter ever.

This is just one example of this government imposing its agenda on people whether they like it or not. Others are the civil unions Bill, the care of children Bill, the prostitutes' reform Bill, the GE Bill, etc. etc. then the "Harry Duynhoven" Bill - retrospective legislation, now more "retrospective legislation" with regard to Labour's election spending. We can see a pattern here, this government gives in all the time to UN dictates. The latest is "repeal of section 59 of the crimes act". This government promised the UN years ago that S59 would go. They can't let a little thing like 88% of the population saying that they wanted S59 to stay, stand in their way.

Now about the "fart tax". You just wait and see, they will re-introduce it "under urgent measures to comply with promised legislation to comply with the kyoto protocol". We are being "softened up" for it already.

"Dog chipping" is another one where "an overwhelming portion of the population didn't want that stupid Bill to go ahead, but government did it anyway. The only reason I can find anywhere for that one is a small news item I found in a paper saying: "the only winners by this will be vetinarians who stand to gain an extra $35 million a year". Funny, Pete Hodgson is a vetinarian - that could make for a good conspiracy theory if I was into that sort of thing.

Anyway I could rave on for hours about this subject, but I'm sure you know all this anyway.

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Quote, eric: However, I'm all in favour of more cops and more cameras. Why should oldies like myself and my wife be threatened with being invaded at home, because the cops have their hands full trying to stop youths killing themselves binge drinking and boy racers causing havoc, because they say they have the right. Why shouldn't we have border controls with dogs and every

device they can get to stop foreigners coming and going as they like. I'm not paranoid but I am suspicious of every outsider who crosses our borders, even if I do know that God is in control and I can see the outcome of the world in the long run".

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Fear is a dreadful thing eric. Unfortunately with "the times" and the increase in population, there has been an increase in crime. This has created fear and the government have recklessly and cynically exaggerated "the danger" and exploited peoples' fears. They have pushed the idea that "society is dangerous, just give us bucketloads of money and limitless power and we will fix it and make you safe in your own home". Honestly you'd be better off to get a large dog, than you would to have cameras everywhere. Don't be fooled by any government propaganda on the subject.

As for the cops, the cops are another thing I'm rather cynical about now. I must stress that I had an entirely different attitude about 10 years ago and saw the police as helpful, commendable people, doing a really hard job. However, since then my daughter's best friend's father was killed after his carotid artery was crushed by a policeman's boot (the father had just had a stroke and was not strong enough to put up any resistance), his "crime" was "speeding" and arguing about it. Then I saw or heard of several more instances of people being bullied by power-happy police, and cases of "police corruption". Then the government ordered the police to embark on their "mass extortion of motorists campaign", during which I was stopped and accused of doing 58km in a 50km/hr area, and when I asked to see the evidence I was threatened with "arrest for verbal assault on police". I really "saw red" at that one - a little old mild-mannered middle aged woman weighing 45kg "assaulting" police!!! And now I read that the government is so desperate for police recruits that they have "shifted the goalposts" in the rules for recruitment, by miles. Gee I wonder why!

But it is not foreigners who cause problems in this country, it is our own people. And how could we have border patrols, NZ is an island?

"Boy racers" have always been with us, they are only considered worse now because they have noisier and more powerful cars. I remember racing an old Vauxhall Wyvern when I was a teenager, a car that couldn't do more than about 60mph, and 100 years ago "boy racers" raced around on horses. I believe that the "boy racer" legislation brought in a few years ago was not aimed at teenagers, but people like you and me, people who might have a car worth the government "confiscating and selling", and people who are likely to pay fines - unlike genuine "boy racers". The wife of one of my husbands friends was driving a car she was unfamiliar with when she "skidded" (or something) and she was charged with "causing a sustained loss of traction". As we get older we have a natural fear of "out of control teenagers" (forgetting that we did exactly the same as they did when we were their age, right eric?) And the government exploits that fear. If the government exploits fears enough the people will give them just about any power they want. We cannot afford to trust these people.

We have to trust in God, instead.

Have a good weekend too (and don't go pouring diesel onto the road or causing a sustained loss of traction, or you might be declared "public enemy No. 1")

[buckthesystem]

To be fair to Buck, he/ she (sorry, don't know your gender) these cameras are in the UK, not the US. So he/she 's not anti american, just anti-Brit. Less anti- Bush, more anti- Blair.

The British, as a whole, aren't that worried about these things. At least, amongst all my family, friends, work colleagues and random blokes I talk to in the pub, nobody is that concerned. People are more worried about getting assaulted or their cars vandalised. Actually, people seem more worried about house prices then they are about anything else.

The British police force, while not necessairily enjoying the full confidence of the British public to catch the criminals, is by and large trusted. Bear in mind that, unlike in other countries, we do not elect our police officials- they do not need to worry about appealing to voters, just about getting the job done. Our police force is still unarmed as a whole- something we are proud of.

There was a greater controversy over giving coppers pepper spray than there is over this.

Why don't you stop worrying over something which we are happy with? If we don't like it we'll vote out the Gov't, or the local council.

Firstly: BUCKTHESYSTEM IS FEMALE AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN!!!!!! Anyway, sorry to over-react, I guess it is not all that important anyway.

'nother thing: NOT "anti-Bush, anti-American, or anti-Brit. But very definitely "anti-Blair". I got that way from (a) Reading about the obsequious, sanctimoneous, soppy little twit, better known - it would seem - amongst his own people as "Tony B Liar" and (b) Talking to immigrants and tourists from UK. (Of course I do see that they might be rather biased as that is probably why they immigrated here in the first place).

I have also gained the impression that a lot of the people absolutely hate being watched by cameras everywhere they go, and feel that if "this is the price they have to pay for "catching those who assault them or vandalise their car" (because as statistics prove, cameras don't prevent those things happening, just provide a video record of the event), it is just not worth it.

I guess it comes down to "what price are you prepared to pay for perceived security".

I also got the impression that after things like the "police shooting the Brazillian electrician seven times in the head" and other incidents, police popularity in the UK is at an all time low, and a lot of English people I've spoken to would like to lynch Sir Ian Blair. And for the police "still being unarmed". All UK police cars carry small arms in the boot ready to be used at a moment's notice, but now the people are unarmed so cannot fight back.

I should hope there was "controversey over giving coppers pepper spray". Pepper spray is a dangerous weapon that should never be entrusted to people like coppers who have proved time and again that they cannot be trusted not to abuse it.

Your last comment: "Why don't you stop worrying over something which we are happy with? If we don't like it we'll vote out the Gov't, or the local council." I'm not personally worried about it, I just posted the story but I didn't expect that anyone would try to justify CCTVs everywhere.

And you must know you can't "vote them out". Once a power is "in" it is almost impossible to get rid of. It might help to look into the provisions of the "regulatory reform Bill".

Grace,

BTS.

[AMK]

There are never enough police to do the job

Policemen cannot be everywhere

Camera,s show you what happens as apposed to what a policeman tells you he saw

Camera,s are not supposed to make judgement calls?

Maybe this discusion should be based on where camera,s should be placed and where not to place them

The problem is with "zero tolerance." For example, I drive through a red light and the camera takes my picture. It doesn't know I am rushing my friend who just had a heart attack to the hospital. A few days later I get a ticket in the mail and have to take a day off work to go for my day in court. The judge lets me off, of coirse, but meanwhile I missed work and had to be inconvenienced all because a camera was doing a job a cop should have been doing. That's what I mean by judgment call. A cop could have pulled me over, seen what was happening and given me an escort to the hospital. Folks, we are are way too reliant on technology; nothing can replace human beings.

Cameras also do not always show everything and images on a screen can be misinterpreted.

I agree about placement. Cameras caught my assault and contributed to the eventual capture of the thugs. But, they were in a very large parkinglot and it was very late at night. In that kind of situation I think they are a useful aid. I think they are useful on private property or in buildings where sensitive work is being done. But they should never be used to enforce laws, only to aid human beings who should be enforcing laws. As a taxpayer, I want to see a uniformed police presense, not some camera that may or may not be working.

Yes, But here is my experience. I parked my car at the local hospital in an area that was not for parking because the whole car park was full. I got a ticket for this, But when I apealed. They checked this on the camera and agreed that I was within my righs and let me off. In your situation if you were trying to save one life by risking other lives and driving like crazy then please please yes lets do have camera,s on top of traffic lights. I guess your country is not as good as ours in that aspect. If someone is that sick we just call for the helecopter. It would have to be death threatning though before they would send the helicopter. As far as camera,s not showing everything. That all depends on what they are set too, That can be corrected in some cases, But true not all. We do have policemen too, There just extremely difficult to spot I too would like to see more policemen around, Not completely just cameras

[AMK]

To be fair to Buck, he/ she (sorry, don't know your gender) these cameras are in the UK, not the US. So he/she 's not anti american, just anti-Brit. Less anti- Bush, more anti- Blair.

The British, as a whole, aren't that worried about these things. At least, amongst all my family, friends, work colleagues and random blokes I talk to in the pub, nobody is that concerned. People are more worried about getting assaulted or their cars vandalised. Actually, people seem more worried about house prices then they are about anything else.

The British police force, while not necessairily enjoying the full confidence of the British public to catch the criminals, is by and large trusted. Bear in mind that, unlike in other countries, we do not elect our police officials- they do not need to worry about appealing to voters, just about getting the job done. Our police force is still unarmed as a whole- something we are proud of.

There was a greater controversy over giving coppers pepper spray than there is over this.

Why don't you stop worrying over something which we are happy with? If we don't like it we'll vote out the Gov't, or the local council.

Sadly the problem with voting gouvernments in and out is that they can never guarentee that they will do what you think they will do. I remember all the promises Maggie made to the scots and just how many of those were filled or forgot But of course we got to vote for somebody and just hope I guess I also wonder if the british police force are as happy about being unarmed as the public are You mentioned house prices. Over here an apartment for 75 sq m goes for 2 million norsk kroner 82113.1118 GBP as long as its not in the city. A newspaper costs

[Marnie]

Yes, But here is my experience. I parked my car at the local hospital in an area that was not for parking because the whole car park was full. I got a ticket for this, But when I apealed. They checked this on the camera and agreed that I was within my righs and let me off. In your situation if you were trying to save one life by risking other lives and driving like crazy then please please yes lets do have camera,s on top of traffic lights. I guess your country is not as good as ours in that aspect. If someone is that sick we just call for the helecopter. It would have to be death threatning though before they would send the helicopter. As far as camera,s not showing everything. That all depends on what they are set too, That can be corrected in some cases, But true not all. We do have policemen too, There just extremely difficult to spot I too would like to see more policemen around, Not completely just cameras

I don't drive crazy. You misinterpret speed for recklessness; the two are not necessarily the same. My example was an extreme one, though. Again, having to take the time to appeal a ticket you would never have gotten had a parking attendant seen you, is a good reason to ditch the camera. Frankly, I have better things to do than wait around to appeal a ticket, perhaps you don't.

My point, though, is that we are too reliant on technology; it makes the human component lazy. Technology should serve us, not the other way around.

[Guest man]

Must apologise, I must have been in too much of a hurry to think about what I was doing.

[kittyjo]

Firstly: BUCKTHESYSTEM IS FEMALE AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN!!!!!! Anyway, sorry to over-react, I guess it is not all that important anyway.

Now you tell us.

Should be Doethesystem?

I didn't know that... If Buckthesystem changes to Doethesystem, then I vote to change the name of this thread to Bobby-Vision!