Moral Absolutism

[undone]

It would also be viewed as pointless unless food was involved. In other words killing another man would be an ignorant act.

Okay...I think I understand what you just said...but to be sure...are you saying it's okay to murder if food is involved?

[Apoptosis]

Man: (kills babies)

Police: MURDERER!!

Man: I AM NOT A MURDERER!! I AM NOT WRONG BECAUSE IT IS MY BELIEF!

Police: ... sure buddy

Man: GOD TOLD ME TO DO IT!

Okay I don't want to push buttons, but when you believe you're right because your belief tells you so we get Suicide Bombers and Jihadists.

I agree...

Hitler: (kills Jews and millions of others)

World: MURDERER!

Hitler: I AM NOT A MURDERER!! I AM NOT WRONG BECAUSE IN TRUTH, I BELIEVE WE'RE A SUPREME RACE BECAUSE DARWINISM AND NIETZSCHE SAY SO. I ONLY TELL PEOPLE I'M RELIGIOUS FOR POLITICAL GAIN! I ACTUALLY HATE RELIGION AND I AM AN ATHEIST ADHERENT!

World: Sure buddy....that makes it okay...

Hitler: I SAY IT'S OKAY BECAUSE THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS MORAL ABSOLUTES. WHO CAN TELL ME IT'S WRONG TO KILL JEWS AND ANYONE WHO OPPOSES MY RULE!?! WHO'S DEFINITION OF MORALITY!?! I'M IN CHARGE! I DEFINE MORALITY! I AM GOD!

Hows your world history grade? Hitler was religious, if you ever read his book you will realize that he alludes to Christianity quite often and views himself as Savior ordained by God. Darwin and Nietzche never said that a race is superior and that you should kill people that you deem to be inferior, if Darwin had said anything, it would be all humanity is one race and one species.

You need to retake world history, or at least stop living in your own dilusions. This is the way that all fundamentalist would respond, by using false facts that they believe to be right. If this was a scientific setting you would be ridiculed for your inaccuracy of information and rash jump to the wrong conclusion, but alas, this isnt a scientific setting, you can hide behind your veil of "this is my religion and you should respect it" and ignore all forms of rational criticism.

A better example for you to use would be Stalin, but he was barely rational. Any psychatrist would have labeled him pathologically paranoid and a megalomaniac.

[undone]

Man: (kills babies)

Police: MURDERER!!

Man: I AM NOT A MURDERER!! I AM NOT WRONG BECAUSE IT IS MY BELIEF!

Police: ... sure buddy

Man: GOD TOLD ME TO DO IT!

Okay I don't want to push buttons, but when you believe you're right because your belief tells you so we get Suicide Bombers and Jihadists.

I agree...

Hitler: (kills Jews and millions of others)

World: MURDERER!

Hitler: I AM NOT A MURDERER!! I AM NOT WRONG BECAUSE IN TRUTH, I BELIEVE WE'RE A SUPREME RACE BECAUSE DARWINISM AND NIETZSCHE SAY SO. I ONLY TELL PEOPLE I'M RELIGIOUS FOR POLITICAL GAIN! I ACTUALLY HATE RELIGION AND I AM AN ATHEIST ADHERENT!

World: Sure buddy....that makes it okay...

Hitler: I SAY IT'S OKAY BECAUSE THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS MORAL ABSOLUTES. WHO CAN TELL ME IT'S WRONG TO KILL JEWS AND ANYONE WHO OPPOSES MY RULE!?! WHO'S DEFINITION OF MORALITY!?! I'M IN CHARGE! I DEFINE MORALITY! I AM GOD!

Hows your world history grade? Hitler was religious, if you ever read his book you will realize that he alludes to Christianity quite often and views himself as Savior ordained by God. Darwin and Nietzche never said that a race is superior and that you should kill people that you deem to be inferior, if Darwin had said anything, it would be all humanity is one race and one species.

You need to retake world history, or at least stop living in your own dilusions. This is the way that all fundamentalist would respond, by using false facts that they believe to be right. If this was a scientific setting you would be ridiculed for your inaccuracy of information and rash jump to the wrong conclusion, but alas, this isnt a scientific setting, you can hide behind your veil of "this is my religion and you should respect it" and ignore all forms of rational criticism.

A better example for you to use would be Stalin, but he was barely rational. Any psychatrist would have labeled him pathologically paranoid and a megalomaniac.

Oh here we go again...I'm getting tired of breaking you newbies in. I'll dig up the link to the google groups discussion on this. These guys aren't friendly to Christians either.

Didn't Darwin say that blacks and women were inferior. I think so.

[undone]

When you click on the link, scroll about a 1/4 way down the page. There will be several links to choose that deal with a variety of issues regarding Hitler.

At the very least, you will see why people should doubt that Hitler was a Christian aside from the obvious atrocities.

http://groups.google.co.bw/group/talk.athe...=raot&hl=en

Btw - the only connection I'm referencing between Hilter and Nietzsche is the atheism.

[undone]

Oh here we go again...I'm getting tired of breaking you newbies in. I'll dig up the link to the google groups discussion on this. These guys aren't friendly to Christians either.

Didn't Darwin say that blacks and women were inferior. I think so.

Regardless of whatever Hitler's religious beliefs are, I think we can all agree that he did not commit atrocities because of them, but rather his nationalist and racist agendas.

Also, how the heck does darwinism come into eugenics? I know eugenics is inspired by the idea of artificial selection, but I don't see direct causation, only a relationship of inspiration. It's like saying Christians are directly responsible for Muslim atrocities because Islam is based upon Christianity.

This really began because I wanted to show that a non-believer has/could also justify their killing because of his/her lack of accountability towards a moral authority. Just as Apoptosis was pointing to a person saying it was a deity that made me do it, the inverse could be true as well.

Anyway, sorry for the "Newbie" reference Apoptosis. That's not your fault.

[ethical.atheist]

This really began because I wanted to show that a non-believer has/could also justify their killing because of his/her lack of accountability towards a moral authority. Just as Apoptosis was pointing to a person saying it was a deity that made me do it, the inverse could be true as well.

What?

Guy: (kills extra cute giggling babies)

Police: Edit* remark* Dude!

Guy: Nobody tells me to kill babies.

Police: Oh... so you are just a wack job.

Guy: Yep

Police: Alright, into the car with you.

Guy: I like candy bars

Police: That's nice

Your lack of belief in a god cannot command you to kill anyone!

Just because you don't believe in God, doesn't mean you don't know right from wrong!

At the very least, you will see why people should doubt that Hitler was a Christian aside from the obvious atrocities.

http://groups.google.co.bw/group/talk.athe...=raot&hl=en

The problem isn't whether Hitler was a "good" Christian by your standards. The problem is that he could use "God's will" as an excuse for mass murder. Edited December 20, 2006 by Matthitjah

[Observer of dreams]

It would also be viewed as pointless unless food was involved. In other words killing another man would be an ignorant act.

Okay...I think I understand what you just said...but to be sure...are you saying it's okay to murder if food is involved?

I am assuming your ok with the rest of the statment then? Because that was the main point. As far as killing one another for food I ment as in the case of an emergency. I'm thinking along the lines of the Donner party.

[undone]

At the very least, you will see why people should doubt that Hitler was a Christian aside from the obvious atrocities.

http://groups.google.co.bw/group/talk.athe...=raot&hl=en

The problem isn't whether Hitler was a "good" Christian by your standards. The problem is that he could use "God's will" as an excuse for mass murder.

From what I can tell, "god's will" meant he was god and it was his will.

[Observer of dreams]

At the very least, you will see why people should doubt that Hitler was a Christian aside from the obvious atrocities.

http://groups.google.co.bw/group/talk.athe...=raot&hl=en

The problem isn't whether Hitler was a "good" Christian by your standards. The problem is that he could use "God's will" as an excuse for mass murder.

From what I can tell, "god's will" meant he was god and it was his will.

Anyone can use anything for an excuse for murder. The son of sam serial killer said that the neighbors dog talked to him and told him to kill people. AN EXCUSE IS NOT A JUSTIFICATION TO ANYONE EXCEPT FOR THOSE MAKING THE EXCUSE. He could use Gods will as an excuse if he wants, but was it? If your an atheist and don't believe in God than of course it wasn't a good excuse because God doesn't exsist in your veiw. To a believer it's not a good excuse because in my veiw God would not condone Hitlers actions considering how fruitless they were. To us suggesting that God spoke to him is the same as saying God is a failure. Hitler failed his mission.

[sweetycakes]

Just because you don't believe in God, doesn't mean you don't know right from wrong!

I agree with that statement, E.A.

I believe that God has given every man a conscience.

I also believe that atheists, for example (some of them, anyway), choose to ignore that conscience, and it's origin, so that they will not hold themselves accountable to God.

I also believe that murderers, for example, have a conscience, but choose to 'cover it up and block it out', so they can get on with their crimes.

I am not lumping atheists in with murderers here, btw