Possesion or Oppression?

[Live4Eternity]

So, in the cases I have seen, these people were saved, born again, practising Christians. These oppressing spirits were already there beforehand

You used the correct word here... Oppressing rather than possesing

[Floatingaxe]

So, in the cases I have seen, these people were saved, born again, practising Christians. These oppressing spirits were already there beforehand

You used the correct word here... Oppressing rather than possesing

Only to appease those who like to differentiate!

[Floatingaxe]

I have seen people come to Christ and receive their salvation, only to discover later on as they start to grow in Him, that there were strongholds there. Jesus is the answer to those! He can wipe them out, by the power of the Holy Spirit. Right???

So, in the cases I have seen, these people were saved, born again, practising Christians. These oppressing spirits were already there beforehand. Jesus begins a new work in us when He is invited into our lives. It isn't totally cleaned up immediately in every believer's case!

Praise God for His Holy Spirit who takes on these strongholds, revealing them to us and enabling us to overcome! Amen. He is our refuge and strength, our Strong Tower!

There are many people who experience extreme demonic torture just after salvation. However the person is not possessed. If the person were possessed, when they were saved and the Holy Spirit entered and sealed their spirit; the evil spirit had to leave the spirit of that person instantaneously. It is instantaneous, not a process. The Holy Spirit is infinitely powerful, it does not take Him Weeks, hours, minutes, or even seconds to drive out the evil spirit. He claims the spirit of the person as His, and that is that. No demon, not even Satan himself would have any chance of staying.

I have witnessed otherwise. It may look good on paper to you, but in reality, it has been proven possible, right before my eyes and hundreds of witnesses. The Holy Spirit won't venture in where one has given ground to the enemy. One has to renounce those rights he has given up to the enemy, so the Holy Spirit can come in and sweep it clean. The devil won't give up what he has been given freely as his own territory.

[gypc]

When I first got saved I wanted to be babtized in the Holy Spirit. They laid hands on me but I didn't speak in tongues and I didn't feel anything. So the lady started asking me what kinds of sin did I do in my past. "Did ya ever read a horoscope?" I said yes.........she quickly wanted me to denounce that........I didn't know anything thing so I did. Then a bunch of other things denounced. Still nothing happened. I went away sad. Then about 2 weeks later I was driving home from church praising the Lord and all of a sudden I began to speak in tongues,.........I was filled up and have never been the same.

Now I said that to say this..............here is the reality in Christ. She should have have just showed me in the word that I am now a new creature in Christ but she had been taught that Word of Faith junk and didn't believe that the Blood of Christ was enough. Well it is. If someone has truly received Christ then his Spirit is in that person and the Blood of Jesus is enough to cleanse us from ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS! When Paul asked the church if they had received the Holy Spirit since they believed, he didn't tell the whole group to start denouncing or renouncing anything....they were filled.

The WOF doctrine is just a bill of goods that has crept in to many circles.

Can a christian be possessed? NO...NO....No. Oppressed yes and it simply means to burden someone. Many in the church do that but so does the devil. If any demon is oppressing you just tell it to flee and it will if you have SUBMITTED yourself to GOD.

[Floatingaxe]

When I first got saved I wanted to be babtized in the Holy Spirit. They laid hands on me but I didn't speak in tongues and I didn't feel anything. So the lady started asking me what kinds of sin did I do in my past. "Did ya ever read a horoscope?" I said yes.........she quickly wanted me to denounce that........I didn't know anything thing so I did. Then a bunch of other things denounced. Still nothing happened. I went away sad. Then about 2 weeks later I was driving home from church praising the Lord and all of a sudden I began to speak in tongues,.........I was filled up and have never been the same.

Now I said that to say this..............here is the reality in Christ. She should have have just showed me in the word that I am now a new creature in Christ but she had been taught that Word of Faith junk and didn't believe that the Blood of Christ was enough. Well it is. If someone has truly received Christ then his Spirit is in that person and the Blood of Jesus is enough to cleanse us from ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS! When Paul asked the church if they had received the Holy Spirit since they believed, he didn't tell the whole group to start denouncing or renouncing anything....they were filled.

The WOF doctrine is just a bill of goods that has crept in to many circles.

Can a christian be possessed? NO...NO....No. Oppressed yes and it simply means to burden someone. Many in the church do that but so does the devil. If any demon is oppressing you just tell it to flee and it will if you have SUBMITTED yourself to GOD.

Very good!

Except--young and immature believers can get caught up in things they know nothing of. New believers can have attachments to things they are unaware of also. Read Neil Anderson's books. You will discover how we can harbour strongholds without even knowing it! That is why we need the Holy Spirit's baptism! Many believers need to do some major renouncing...then ask the Holy Spirit to fill them...He will come in like a flood!

[gypc]

Very good!

Except--young and immature believers can get caught up in things they know nothing of. New believers can have attachments to things they are unaware of also. Read Neil Anderson's books. You will discover how we can harbour strongholds without even knowing it! That is why we need the Holy Spirit's baptism! Many believers need to do some major renouncing...then ask the Holy Spirit to fill them...He will come in like a flood!

Ok, I digg where your comin from but check this out............I was filled with the Spirit during my early Hagin years and I was also totally into Swaggart ..........well, when he fell I fell right along with him. I was bummed out and I got into a worldy band, starting smoking weed again and drinking. I did that for about 4 years then one day I came to my senses (Praise God) ask the Lord to forgive me and was awesomly restored. He never left me even though I had done some bad things. I never became possessed by a demon yet totally in the flesh. He showed me in the book of 1 John that If I sinned I could ask him to forgive me and be cleansed by his Blood. He also showed me that if I continued in that lifestyle of sin I would not inherit the kingdom of God in Galations 5. Point is, to even come to my senses I needed his Spirit in me. If I had become possessed at that time then the Lord would have left me and we wouldn't be sittin here fellowshipping at this awesome place. In other words.........I don't believe God comes in then goes out then the devil comes in then is cast out then God comes back and so on. I believe if God leaves a person, they are left forever. just MHO.

[gypc]

When I first got saved I wanted to be babtized in the Holy Spirit. They laid hands on me but I didn't speak in tongues and I didn't feel anything. So the lady started asking me what kinds of sin did I do in my past. "Did ya ever read a horoscope?" I said yes.........she quickly wanted me to denounce that........I didn't know anything thing so I did. Then a bunch of other things denounced. Still nothing happened. I went away sad. Then about 2 weeks later I was driving home from church praising the Lord and all of a sudden I began to speak in tongues,.........I was filled up and have never been the same.

Now I said that to say this..............here is the reality in Christ. She should have have just showed me in the word that I am now a new creature in Christ but she had been taught that Word of Faith junk and didn't believe that the Blood of Christ was enough. Well it is. If someone has truly received Christ then his Spirit is in that person and the Blood of Jesus is enough to cleanse us from ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS! When Paul asked the church if they had received the Holy Spirit since they believed, he didn't tell the whole group to start denouncing or renouncing anything....they were filled.

The WOF doctrine is just a bill of goods that has crept in to many circles.

Can a christian be possessed? NO...NO....No. Oppressed yes and it simply means to burden someone. Many in the church do that but so does the devil. If any demon is oppressing you just tell it to flee and it will if you have SUBMITTED yourself to GOD.

I am pentecostal and speak in tongues. Most of the teaching about baptism in the Holy Spirit is pure looney religious tradition. All this "cant fill a dirty vessel" is just pure nonsense. Upon Salvation, God sees the saved person as Righteous. Righteous is Righteous. Man's righteousness is Filthy rags. Upon salvation, the person is as righteous as they will ever be, by the blood of Jesus.

Word of Faith does not teach what this woman taught you. Word of faith teaches Righteousness by Faith in Jesus. Word of faith teaches no works. Word of Faith preaces Faith in Jesus only. She may claim to be word of faith, but she is not true to their doctrine. Notice the name is "word of Faith," not "works and works."

I didn;t mean to get into another WOF discussion............I'll just say that I'm free from their false teaching. Now about this thread, I think we pretty much agree as of much of your post as I have read.

[Floatingaxe]

I have seen people come to Christ and receive their salvation, only to discover later on as they start to grow in Him, that there were strongholds there. Jesus is the answer to those! He can wipe them out, by the power of the Holy Spirit. Right???

So, in the cases I have seen, these people were saved, born again, practising Christians. These oppressing spirits were already there beforehand. Jesus begins a new work in us when He is invited into our lives. It isn't totally cleaned up immediately in every believer's case!

Praise God for His Holy Spirit who takes on these strongholds, revealing them to us and enabling us to overcome! Amen. He is our refuge and strength, our Strong Tower!

There are many people who experience extreme demonic torture just after salvation. However the person is not possessed. If the person were possessed, when they were saved and the Holy Spirit entered and sealed their spirit; the evil spirit had to leave the spirit of that person instantaneously. It is instantaneous, not a process. The Holy Spirit is infinitely powerful, it does not take Him Weeks, hours, minutes, or even seconds to drive out the evil spirit. He claims the spirit of the person as His, and that is that. No demon, not even Satan himself would have any chance of staying.

I have witnessed otherwise. It may look good on paper to you, but in reality, it has been proven possible, right before my eyes and hundreds of witnesses. The Holy Spirit won't venture in where one has given ground to the enemy. One has to renounce those rights he has given up to the enemy, so the Holy Spirit can come in and sweep it clean. The devil won't give up what he has been given freely as his own territory.

What you have witnessed is demons openly oppressing and manifesting in the life of a newly saved person. However, it is impossible fot that saved person to be possessed. The Demonic level was instantly Changed upon salvation. The demons are still active in the life of that person. They still torment that person, but they can not possess that saved person. The demonic spirit that was possessing that person lost its claim to the persons spirit upon salvation. Its level of influence was instantly lowered from "possession" to "obsession" or "oppression."

I never said possession, as I do not recognize that term, nor oppression. All is torment and all is requiring renunciation and the freedom that comes from the power and the fullness of the Holy Spirit in a life.

[Live4Eternity]

I have seen people come to Christ and receive their salvation, only to discover later on as they start to grow in Him, that there were strongholds there. Jesus is the answer to those! He can wipe them out, by the power of the Holy Spirit. Right???

So, in the cases I have seen, these people were saved, born again, practising Christians. These oppressing spirits were already there beforehand. Jesus begins a new work in us when He is invited into our lives. It isn't totally cleaned up immediately in every believer's case!

Praise God for His Holy Spirit who takes on these strongholds, revealing them to us and enabling us to overcome! Amen. He is our refuge and strength, our Strong Tower!

There are many people who experience extreme demonic torture just after salvation. However the person is not possessed. If the person were possessed, when they were saved and the Holy Spirit entered and sealed their spirit; the evil spirit had to leave the spirit of that person instantaneously. It is instantaneous, not a process. The Holy Spirit is infinitely powerful, it does not take Him Weeks, hours, minutes, or even seconds to drive out the evil spirit. He claims the spirit of the person as His, and that is that. No demon, not even Satan himself would have any chance of staying.

I have witnessed otherwise. It may look good on paper to you, but in reality, it has been proven possible, right before my eyes and hundreds of witnesses. The Holy Spirit won't venture in where one has given ground to the enemy. One has to renounce those rights he has given up to the enemy, so the Holy Spirit can come in and sweep it clean. The devil won't give up what he has been given freely as his own territory.

What you have witnessed is demons openly oppressing and manifesting in the life of a newly saved person. However, it is impossible fot that saved person to be possessed. The Demonic level was instantly Changed upon salvation. The demons are still active in the life of that person. They still torment that person, but they can not possess that saved person. The demonic spirit that was possessing that person lost its claim to the persons spirit upon salvation. Its level of influence was instantly lowered from "possession" to "obsession" or "oppression."

I never said possession, as I do not recognize that term, nor oppression. All is torment and all is requiring renunciation and the freedom that comes from the power and the fullness of the Holy Spirit in a life.

True, it all needs rebuked and freedom from.

But there is a difference and I believe that we need to know what that difference is so that we have the knowledge (helmet of salvation).... that I know that I know; I know it in my knower, ect.

If I have this knowledge, it enables my confidence.

It's like this question, "If you could do one thing and you knew beyond a shadow of a doubt you wouldn't fail, what would it be?' We can easily relate this to our salvation. Because once we know that beyond a shadow of a doubt that our faith has been established in Christ, the Rock of ages, the strong foundatoin, once we are in His hand, once we have been sealed be the Spirit of Life, Once we are His... nothing can seperate us, and that my friend, is an assurance that cannot be found in anything else other than Christ! Amen and hallelujah!

God bless!

[Floatingaxe]

I have seen people come to Christ and receive their salvation, only to discover later on as they start to grow in Him, that there were strongholds there. Jesus is the answer to those! He can wipe them out, by the power of the Holy Spirit. Right???

So, in the cases I have seen, these people were saved, born again, practising Christians. These oppressing spirits were already there beforehand. Jesus begins a new work in us when He is invited into our lives. It isn't totally cleaned up immediately in every believer's case!

Praise God for His Holy Spirit who takes on these strongholds, revealing them to us and enabling us to overcome! Amen. He is our refuge and strength, our Strong Tower!

There are many people who experience extreme demonic torture just after salvation. However the person is not possessed. If the person were possessed, when they were saved and the Holy Spirit entered and sealed their spirit; the evil spirit had to leave the spirit of that person instantaneously. It is instantaneous, not a process. The Holy Spirit is infinitely powerful, it does not take Him Weeks, hours, minutes, or even seconds to drive out the evil spirit. He claims the spirit of the person as His, and that is that. No demon, not even Satan himself would have any chance of staying.

I have witnessed otherwise. It may look good on paper to you, but in reality, it has been proven possible, right before my eyes and hundreds of witnesses. The Holy Spirit won't venture in where one has given ground to the enemy. One has to renounce those rights he has given up to the enemy, so the Holy Spirit can come in and sweep it clean. The devil won't give up what he has been given freely as his own territory.

What you have witnessed is demons openly oppressing and manifesting in the life of a newly saved person. However, it is impossible fot that saved person to be possessed. The Demonic level was instantly Changed upon salvation. The demons are still active in the life of that person. They still torment that person, but they can not possess that saved person. The demonic spirit that was possessing that person lost its claim to the persons spirit upon salvation. Its level of influence was instantly lowered from "possession" to "obsession" or "oppression."

I never said possession, as I do not recognize that term, nor oppression. All is torment and all is requiring renunciation and the freedom that comes from the power and the fullness of the Holy Spirit in a life.

I know you never said "possession." When you try to simplify all levels of demonic activity to one term, you have to let that term cover possession as well. Even though you did not say "possession," that is what you encompass by your over simplification of the matter. You can not group the 3 levels of demonic oppression under the blanket of "torment" and any of it make sense. When you over simplify a very complicated issue, it leads to confusion. To use your terminology, you would have to say the the Apostle Paul was possessed. He was oppressed, a very different problem. The 3 distinctions are vastly important to be able to understand what is going on in a persons life.

That is not an oversimplification...but it is a simplification. We have all authority over it all...given to us by Jesus. All this falderal about "levels" makes no difference. Demonic activity is under our feet, and we must stand against it whatever form it takes! That power certainly does not have any rights to come anywhere close to us unless we give it the authority to. Of course Paul was not possessed! I don't believe he was oppressed either.