Have you received the Holy Spirit?

[Floatingaxe]

As a tongues-speaking Pentecostal believer, my advice is always:

SEEK THE GIVER, NOT THE GIFT

(hey, I'm Pentecostal, we're allowed to shout!!!)

People's definitions of "orderly" seem to vary.

Here's what I see as orderly:

When someone is addressing the congregation everyone listens.

When one person is leading in prayer, don't drown him/her out.

When it's time to sing, everyone sings together (even if you're not in tune ... like me!).

If the congregation is all praising the Lord in unison, then all can pray out loud together - softly or loudly depending on your personality.

The person appointed to lead the congregation should be respected, and his leading followed.

Works for us.

I've read posts by those who are very critical of speaking in tongues.

And I agree that there are some aspects of how it is practised that should be criticised.

But my question to those people would be: Does anyone in your church ever speak in tongues? If not, why not?

I do not believe tongues is the initial evidence of receiving the Holy Spirit, but Scripturally, it is an expression of the Holy Spirit.

If the Holy Spirit is in your church, sooner or later, you will experience the ministry of tongues as Paul outlined it in 1 Cor 14

1Cor 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

.

Yahoooooooooooooooo!

[Floatingaxe]

From post #4

A leader of a church I attended once asked me this very question. He siad that because I couldn't speak in tounges that therefore I hadn't received the Spirit. I tried to explain to him that not all speak in tounges and that it is the least of gifts. He wanted to pray over me so that I would specificaly 'receive the Spirit' and in turn speak in tounges. Boy, did I make my exit quickly before he could work his magic!

Boy, did I make my exit quickly before he could work his magic!

I have a question: What would you expect, had this guy "work[ed] his magic"? I have no clue!!

I really would like to know what anyone here thinks: if one is not willing to speak in tongues or fall backwards, do you know what would happen if a preacher like this tried to "work his magic" on that one?

Now, does it make sense to you?

Yes, a little more! I believe that an unwilling person just will not receive. Simple--no matter what coercion methods are used. The Holy Spirit will not be coerced.

[Guest stevej]

Let's look at some logic. How are voices a fragrance to God. Is it because we sacrifce to worship and therefore is a fragrance. By the definition it is a smell. How can something verbal be a fragrance.

So, now because I wax a little poetic, it is something to be "corrected"? Just as incense is a sweet fragrance, and God gladly accepted such offerings, so are our prayers, offered up to Him as praise and worship as sweet-smelling aroma! It is true...apart from logic!

No one is correcting you tho i challenge you to show me anywhere in the scripture it indicates prayer or a voice is a sweet fragrance to God. The first usage of the term is found in Genesis 8

Gen 8:20 And Noah built an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.

Gen 8:21 And the LORD smelled a sweet savor; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.

The phrase is used in relationship to a sacrifice. What sacrifice do we make in relationship to our prayers.? This is true of every usage of sweet savor in the Ild Testament. There is one reference in the New Testament:

2Co 2:14 Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savor of his knowledge by us in every place.

2Co 2:15 For we are unto God a sweet savor of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:

2Co 2:16 To the one we are the savor of death unto death; and to the other the savor of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things?

This is in relationship again to a sacrifice, the sacrifice Jesus made on our behalf. It is His blood that is the sweet savor!

The word fragrance is not found in the scripture. So wax poetically and back your belief with scripture.

By the way i notice an absence of comment on the rest of the post. Which states clearly that even in disagreement fellowship is not broken between me and thee. So please do not take this as anything more than asking you to clarify.

Our sacrifice of praise is a fragrance to the Lord. When He tells me that, I accept it. It is scriptural in that all sacrifices that are acceptable were a sweet-smelling aroma in the nostrils of God. We also are a fragrance to God.

2 Corinthians 2:14

In the Messiah, in Christ, God leads us from place to place in one perpetual victory parade. Through us, he brings knowledge of Christ. Everywhere we go, people breathe in the exquisite fragrance. Because of Christ, we give off a sweet scent rising to God, which is recognized by those on the way of salvation

[Floatingaxe]

There are several mentions of the sweet aroma of the burnt sacrifice given to God. The sacrifice offering made by fire...a lamb, ram, bull, grain, drink or blood offering.

And yes, this also...Jesus' precious sacrifice:

Ephesians 5:2

And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma.

I believe this is where the anology of prayer as the smoke of incense comes from, for many people:

Revelation 8:3-4...

Then another angel, having a golden censer, came and stood at the altar. He was given much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne. And the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, ascended before God from the angel's hand.

There is no danger in likening our prayers to an aroma in the nostrils of God! We are free people, and we need to let God out of the box some of us put Him in...Actually, He will not stay there anyway!

[firehill]

I have to agree with Steve when he said.

Good move.

In the Bible, the baptism of the holy spirit is mentioned in two places: Acts 2 and Acts 10. In both cases, it came without warning. No one ever received this gift by asking for it, or by receiving instruction.

Steve

I believe if it was the Lord's will for me to speak in tongues........then I would be able to. I have no desire to able to, so why should I ask for something that would not be useful to Him or me.

You know ALL I wanted was to be prayed for/over and it turned into a 'well we can't pray for you unless you receive the spirit and thereby speak in tounges. Ghees, what a bad memory. I just remembered more of that incident.

[firehill]

Boy, did I make my exit quickly before he could work his magic!

clear error on that leaders part.

Amein!

The above was actually written by me, under a name I will no longer use.

I have a question: What would you expect, had this guy "work[ed] his magic"? I have no clue!!

The 'tounge movement' reached a hight in popularity at the time and so I wasn't sure but I wasn't going to find out. I do believe besides mumbo jumbo, fakery,,, that demonic forces play a big part in that movement. I do believe in the biblical gifts of tounges though...

[Floatingaxe]

I have to agree with Steve when he said.

Good move.

In the Bible, the baptism of the holy spirit is mentioned in two places: Acts 2 and Acts 10. In both cases, it came without warning. No one ever received this gift by asking for it, or by receiving instruction.

Steve

I believe if it was the Lord's will for me to speak in tongues........then I would be able to. I have no desire to able to, so why should I ask for something that would not be useful to Him or me.

You know ALL I wanted was to be prayed for/over and it turned into a 'well we can't pray for you unless you receive the spirit and thereby speak in tounges. Ghees, what a bad memory. I just remembered more of that incident.

That is too bad, firehill...someone has gotten it wrong there! So sorry. Really.

[firehill]

[Tzav_LaTzav]

I agree with you completely. I think that any comparison with Receiving the Baptism of the Holy Spirit being "magic" is blasphemous.

Hr, what is completely blasphemous to me is that some of these magicians disguise their magic and call it the H Spirit, when He has not known them! Such are of that group who will hear Him say, "I never knew you!" I have been around such, in one church service, while I have not been around ANY who can knock people over in the actual power of the H Spirit. I also do not believe people can give anyone the H Spirit.

Judgmental? You bet. But I am writing from personal experience.

[Floatingaxe]

I agree with you completely. I think that any comparison with Receiving the Baptism of the Holy Spirit being "magic" is blasphemous.

Hr, what is completely blasphemous to me is that some of these magicians disguise their magic and call it the H Spirit, when He has not known them! Such are of that group who will hear Him say, "I never knew you!" I have been around such, in one church service, while I have not been around ANY who can knock people over in the actual power of the H Spirit. I also do not believe people can give anyone the H Spirit.

Judgmental? You bet. But I am writing from personal experience.

Of course people cannot dispense the Holy Spirit. But we are not to neglect laying on of hands for people to receive anointing.

2 Timothy 1:6

Therefore I remind you to stir up the gift of God which is in you through the laying on of my hands.

1 Timothy 4:14

Do not neglect the gift that is in you, which was given to you by prophecy with the laying on of the hands of the eldership.