Abraham

[Guest Teri]

God promised Abraham he would be the father of many nations. And as we have seen he is. Through his two sons 24 sons were born and from that has come the multitudes. But do you ever wonder why it came to pass as it did, Abraham's son's each became a blessing and a curse to the world. The decendants of these two boys became all throughout scripture enemies and many battles were fought which continues today. Obviously this is important and that they came from the same seed. So anyone got a good explanation in this, and why it was done in this manner. What does it foreshadow?

In Yeshua's love

Teri

[Matthitjah]

Sister Bless you,

Just like us the the everlasting Covenant was promised to those who walk by the Spirit and not the flesh. The children of the flesh have temporary blessings.

The Lord knew Ishmaels heart. He even said he will be a WILD man and his hand will be against all men. A man of the Spirit would not walk this way.

We can see later thru the actions again of 2 brothers. Esau and Jacob. How the everlasting covenant was passed. For G-d knows mens hearts.

What did Esau do? Why pick on him. He was after all the first born as was Ishmael.

Ge

[OneAccord]

The older brother/younger brother is a recurring theme in the Bible. Cain/Abel, Isaac/Ismael, Jacob/Esau, Ephraim/Manasseh, the prodgial son and his brother, even Rachael and Leah reflect this.

What does it foreshadow? I think it may be a type for Israel and the Church.

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Teri,

God promised Abraham he would be the father of many nations. And as we have seen he is. Through his two sons 24 sons were born and from that has come the multitudes. But do you ever wonder why it came to pass as it did, Abraham's son's each became a blessing and a curse to the world. The decendants of these two boys became all throughout scripture enemies and many battles were fought which continues today. Obviously this is important and that they came from the same seed. So anyone got a good explanation in this, and why it was done in this manner. What does it foreshadow?

I believe Dr. Luke gave a beautiful answer to your question. I hope that is what you were looking for.

I have other thoughts you may want to consider:

If you are familiar with "typology", then you can see that in this story Abraham is a picture of God "who is the father of all". Ishmael is a type of all nations - generally referred to in the scripture as "gentiles", but it was through Isaac that the promise was to come. For our purpose here, he is the "type" of Christ - for there is NO other name given on earth or in heaven by which we must be saved.

Isaac begat Esau and Jacob. Esau married into the line of Ishmael and established the country of Edom. I believe this was the start of the major split between the Arabs and Jews - the two semitic cultures we are most familiar with today. There has always been antagonism between the two. The scriptures reveal a constant war between the two.

Okay, Isaac, as I said is a "type" of Christ, I believe we now see "another" typology develop here. (I am kind of wishy-washy here because one has to be carefull when assigning "types") But I believe that Esau in this new "typology" represents the Gentiles, whereas the "promise" now comes through Jacob (later Israel).

We see in the NT that it was to Jacob (Israel) to which Christ came, but they (as a whole) rejected Him, and thus the "promise" went to "the nations", and for this purpose, I believe that means Esau, for it was "through Isaac" that the promise would come and by him "all nations would be blessed" - That is through Christ - "all nations" would be blessed.

We see in Romans that God "hated Esau, but loved Jacob". The Israelites were often warned against having anything to do with "the nations", because of their multiple gods and evil practices which were an abomination to God. But once Israel rejected Christ, then those (the nations) who did not know "The God" would have a light shine in the midst of them and they would be the ones to receive the Gospel. Not that God's promises were to no effect to Jacob, but Israel's heart was hardened (temporarily) so that the Gospel would go out to "all the world".

In the end, it will be the gentiles who deliver the gospel to the Jews. So it is written: He who was first shall be last and the last shall be first. Put another way, It was Israel who was first to receive the gospel, but they will be the "last" to be saved (as a whole).

You may want to look up and read all instance of Isaac in the NT, to see what it has to say about him.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[Guest shadow2b]

-Ga 4:31

So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

Walk by the flesh or walk by the Spirit. Rise above your sin or live in it.

G-d is the same yesterday , today, and tomorrow. He is consistant. His charecter doesn't change. The promise is good!

Free will. The blessing or the curse? 

Peace,

Dave

- Dave--my Brother you never cease to amaze me-what a blessing you are

[Guest shadow2b]

-In the end, it will be the gentiles who deliver the gospel to the Jews. So it is written: He who was first shall be last and the last shall be first. Put another way, It was Israel who was first to receive the gospel, but they will be the "last" to be saved (as a whole).

-you do it every time DAD--put the final part of the puzzle in that brings the entire thing into

-the corrective perspective

[JesusisGod2]

The older brother/younger brother is a recurring theme in the Bible. Cain/Abel, Isaac/Ismael, Jacob/Esau, Ephraim/Manasseh, the prodgial son and his brother, even Rachael and Leah reflect this.

What does it foreshadow? I think it may be a type for Israel and the Church.

Hi Oneaccord,

I dont think anyone overlooked your post on purpose here, with those other beautiful responses.

But I couldnt help but reply to what you have posted, I really think this is a beautiful illistration of what it could represent as well as what the others have posted. I have never really thought of this in this light before.

God bless you sister, this is really some food for thought here, I have heard the analogy of the first born representing the flesh and the second born representing the spiritual or born again birth in a believers life.

Which is why the second born was blessed with inheritance and the first was not. Although all the rights belonged to the first born according to the flesh, but it is the spiritual or second birth that God blesses.

Thanks again for that response.

In Jesus

Kevin

[OneAccord]

Although all the rights belonged to the first born according to the flesh, but it is the spiritual or second birth that God blesses.

And you have blessed me as well, brother. Yours was a very good insight that I had overlooked, I hadn't seen the flesh/spirit connection. It illustrates the difference between the flesh Israel and the spirit Israel.

[Guest idolsmasher]

I think it foreshadows the coming Kingdom of Christ where all the animosity is done away and no race,nationality,beliefs, or customs, will ever divide us again or cause us to do wickedly towards one another. It shows how Christ is our only hope because of our sinfulness, greed,self righteousness and pride. We are nothing without Him!

[Guest Teri]

As One Accord pointed out this is a recurring theme throughout scripture. I like the representation of the fleshly man and the spiritual man. I'm still trying to sort through the foreshadow of Israel and the Chruch. One Accord could you go farther with that?

I was actually thinking it could tell the story of Christ and Lucifer. Many interpretations refer to the angels as sons of God, Christ was called the son of God. In the human realm Lucifer came unto the scene first and Christ second. But now thanks to you guys I'm second guessing this and have to humbly acknowledge I could be wrong. I can't get around this that God is the potter and we are the clay. So we were all formed by His hand which leads me to understand that all these people were formed the way they were for the purposes they carried out and not all good.

Now I'm going in a different direction. Look at this Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and blessing and calamity you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die. Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her Offspring: He will bruise and tread your head underfoot. and you will lie in wait and bruise His heel. Satan had offspring?

Genesis 3:22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know between good and evil and blessing and calamity; and now, lest he put forth his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever. God knows between good and evil, evil pre-existed man?

There you go guys a birds eye view of the fumblings in my mind. I have drawn no conclusions from any of this and am just bumbling around in my head and now with you all to figure it out. Thanks for the help.

In Yeshua's love

Teri