Behind the Obama Madrassa Hoax

[apothanein kerdos]

If your definition of hatemongering is correct, which it is not, Jesus was a huge hatemonger. He called people Dogs, Snakes, Vipers, hypocrites, sons of hell, etc. etc. What would you call Him? Jesus loved sinners, but He hated their sin. He was not tolerant at all of sin. When He pardoned sin, He always said "sin no more." He was not tolerant.

Calling those who practice greed, injustice, the self-righteous, and the sanctimonious hypocrites and vipers is not the same thing is bashing gays, liberals, environmentalists, feminists, and others who disagree with you. We are not talking about being tolerant of evil, but rather tolerant of those who simply have different views and lifestyles.

I might add that despite the fact that Homosexuality was the norm in the Roman Empire and far more prevalent that it is even in our society today, he never even mentioned the subject. Obviously, it

[forrestkc]

If your definition of hatemongering is correct, which it is not, Jesus was a huge hatemonger. He called people Dogs, Snakes, Vipers, hypocrites, sons of hell, etc. etc. What would you call Him? Jesus loved sinners, but He hated their sin. He was not tolerant at all of sin. When He pardoned sin, He always said "sin no more." He was not tolerant.

Calling those who practice greed, injustice, the self-righteous, and the sanctimonious hypocrites and vipers is not the same thing is bashing gays, liberals, environmentalists, feminists, and others who disagree with you. We are not talking about being tolerant of evil, but rather tolerant of those who simply have different views and lifestyles.

I might add that despite the fact that Homosexuality was the norm in the Roman Empire and far more prevalent that it is even in our society today, he never even mentioned the subject. Obviously, it

[billie]

If they're gay or lesbian and become Christians, they won't stay gay or lesbian.

[apothanein kerdos]

Anyway, so you are telling me that greed, materialism, and indifference to injustice is not being normalized in our society? There is a whole heresy that has cropped up in the last 25 years or so that tries to justify it. The whole "Word of Faith" / Gospel of Greed stuff.

And you're going to be hard pressed to find anyone on this board that agrees with that garbage. Maybe you just ignore it, but there are more WOF threads on this board than there are threads about homosexuality. In fact, there are more threads on poverty/capitalism than there are homosexuality. The problem is, as a liberal, you have this view that you need to stand up for the "oppressed minority," thus your perception is people on here are going to bash homosexuals (as if calling it a sin is bashing). Your view twists the reality that has actually occurred.

I never one time wrote on here that homosexual acts were not condemned as a sin in both in scripture. I said that Jesus did not specificially address it, because he did not. I merely stated that I nor anyone else on earth is in a position to judge whether gays and lesbians can be Christians. It is not up to us. It is an issue that is between them and God.

It's pretty simple - if someone claims Christ, they cannot claim homosexuality and be okay with it. That is the kicker - it is when we normalize our sin that our salvation comes into question. Can someone engage in a homosexual act and still be a Christian? Absolutely, so long as they realize it was wrong and repent. Same as any other sin. One cannot normalize greed, laziness, homosexuality, promiscuity, etc., and still claim to be a Christian. That isn't an issue between them and God - it's sound theology.

[forrestkc]

Anyway, so you are telling me that greed, materialism, and indifference to injustice is not being normalized in our society? There is a whole heresy that has cropped up in the last 25 years or so that tries to justify it. The whole "Word of Faith" / Gospel of Greed stuff.

And you're going to be hard pressed to find anyone on this board that agrees with that garbage. Maybe you just ignore it, but there are more WOF threads on this board than there are threads about homosexuality. In fact, there are more threads on poverty/capitalism than there are homosexuality. The problem is, as a liberal, you have this view that you need to stand up for the "oppressed minority," thus your perception is people on here are going to bash homosexuals (as if calling it a sin is bashing). Your view twists the reality that has actually occurred.

I have seen several WOF threads on here because it relates to the charismatic movement. However, threads on culture war whipping post issues outnumber threads on poverty by at least 10 to 1 on here. You seem to think I am this big far left lib, but I am not. I will freely admit that I am a libertarian on social issues, but in general, I find that I argue things from the left of my position on here a lot because the arguments are so weighted to the partisan right.

This is a couple of quotes from just one thread on Homosexuality on here, the premise of this thread was to compare Gay Marriage to polygamy of bestiality.

"If the homosexuals will not repent and live a decent and Godly life, then they should be exiled to antartica or somewhere, just as these kings exiled them, and let their curse be upon themselves, and let the blessings of the Lord be upon those who love him and have repented of their sin."

and in response:

"Antarctica is good idea, but my vote is to send them to the moon, that way their filth and perversion is as far away from me as possible."

This is the kind of stuff that crops up in practically every thread that deals with this subject. It is not that I think that its mean people who post these kinds of things, but rather it is just that the language that is used to describe these kinds of issues has devolved to such a point that it is so vitriolic that even decent people don't think about how meanspirited some of the things they are writing is.

[apothanein kerdos]

I have seen several WOF threads on here because it relates to the charismatic movement. However, threads on culture war whipping post issues outnumber threads on poverty by at least 10 to 1 on here. You seem to think I am this big far left lib, but I am not. I will freely admit that I am a libertarian on social issues, but in general, I find that I argue things from the left of my position on here a lot because the arguments are so weighted to the partisan right.

Then you haven't looked at the board. I'm calling you out on this - prove what you're saying. The fact is, if it is not greater, I assure you that threads relating to poverty/economic issues will equal those on homosexuality. Again, the reason there is so much attention on homosexuality is that people are not trying to normalize poverty.

"If the homosexuals will not repent and live a decent and Godly life, then they should be exiled to antartica or somewhere, just as these kings exiled them, and let their curse be upon themselves, and let the blessings of the Lord be upon those who love him and have repented of their sin."

and in response:

"Antarctica is good idea, but my vote is to send them to the moon, that way their filth and perversion is as far away from me as possible."

This is the kind of stuff that crops up in practically every thread that deals with this subject. It is not that I think that its mean people who post these kinds of things, but rather it is just that the language that is used to describe these kinds of issues has devolved to such a point that it is so vitriolic that even decent people don't think about how meanspirited some of the things they are writing is.

One thing people used to learn before getting out of college is that when confronted with an extreme position, it is unwise to revert to an equally extreme position. These people are wrong and honestly haven't studied the scriptures (or at least applied them). At the same time, you are equally wrong to advocate it is a "choice" or say that we can't know if it's right or wrong...that we need to accept some people will choose it.

Likewise, there is nothing wrong in equating homosexuality with polygamy or pedophilia or even heterosexual promiscuity - all are perversions of what God created sex for.

[forrestkc]

I have seen several WOF threads on here because it relates to the charismatic movement. However, threads on culture war whipping post issues outnumber threads on poverty by at least 10 to 1 on here. You seem to think I am this big far left lib, but I am not. I will freely admit that I am a libertarian on social issues, but in general, I find that I argue things from the left of my position on here a lot because the arguments are so weighted to the partisan right.

Then you haven't looked at the board. I'm calling you out on this - prove what you're saying. The fact is, if it is not greater, I assure you that threads relating to poverty/economic issues will equal those on homosexuality. Again, the reason there is so much attention on homosexuality is that people are not trying to normalize poverty.

"If the homosexuals will not repent and live a decent and Godly life, then they should be exiled to antartica or somewhere, just as these kings exiled them, and let their curse be upon themselves, and let the blessings of the Lord be upon those who love him and have repented of their sin."

and in response:

"Antarctica is good idea, but my vote is to send them to the moon, that way their filth and perversion is as far away from me as possible."

This is the kind of stuff that crops up in practically every thread that deals with this subject. It is not that I think that its mean people who post these kinds of things, but rather it is just that the language that is used to describe these kinds of issues has devolved to such a point that it is so vitriolic that even decent people don't think about how meanspirited some of the things they are writing is.

One thing people used to learn before getting out of college is that when confronted with an extreme position, it is unwise to revert to an equally extreme position. These people are wrong and honestly haven't studied the scriptures (or at least applied them). At the same time, you are equally wrong to advocate it is a "choice" or say that we can't know if it's right or wrong...that we need to accept some people will choose it.

Likewise, there is nothing wrong in equating homosexuality with polygamy or pedophilia or even heterosexual promiscuity - all are perversions of what God created sex for.

I think every poverty thread on here in the last month or so was started by me or you.

Anyway, I did not say that Homosexuality was a choice. I also did not say that it is not a sin. I also did not say that I did not know if it was right or wrong. All I said was that I nor anyone else knows whether a Gay or Lesbian can be a Christian or not.

Furthermore, is it hatemongering to equate in anyway, homosexuality to pedophillia. If you do not see that, then I don't know what to tell you.

[apothanein kerdos]

I think every poverty thread on here in the last month or so was started by me or you.

Anyway, I did not say that Homosexuality was a choice. I also did not say that it is not a sin. I also did not say that I did not know if it was right or wrong. All I said was that I nor anyone else knows whether a Gay or Lesbian can be a Christian or not.

Furthermore, is it hatemongering to equate in anyway, homosexuality to pedophillia. If you do not see that, then I don't know what to tell you.

Oh joy! Rhetoric!

In the past month? You said the entire board...so use the entire board, from start to now.

The Bible says that you cannot be living a lifestyle of ANY sin...that means you can't look at your sin, accept it, be comfortable with it, and admit Christ as your savior. The two are mutually exclusive. Homosexuality is a sin, someone that embraces it and says there is nothing wrong with it and practices it is living a lifestyle of sin, ergo he is not a Christian. It really is that simple.

As for "hate mongering," really? You say that and just go, "Oh it's so obvious that you should see it, if not, then you're just blind and can't listen to any logic." Of course, no logic is offered on this and therefore we are at a loss as to what is supposedly so obvious. It's a "poor man's argument," someone that simply lacks the necessary skills to form the logical analysis needed to show why the comparison cannot be made.

Is Pedophilia a sexual perversion that involves a victim? Yes, it is. Is homosexuality a sexual perversion that involves a victim? It actually involves two victims, even if they do not see it that way.

Both are the same perversion.

[Zceiv]

Calling those who practice greed, injustice, the self-righteous, and the sanctimonious hypocrites and vipers is not the same thing is bashing gays, liberals, environmentalists, feminists, and others who disagree with you. We are not talking about being tolerant of evil, but rather tolerant of those who simply have different views and lifestyles.

Ok. Does that mean that you would not have a problem with pedophiles? After all, it's just a different lifestyle, right?

Show me one peer reviewed scientific study that shows that homosexuality is a conscious choice. There is not a single one in existence. So what if we have not identified a gene for it yet. We have not identified a gene for schizophrenia, is schizophrenia simply a choice then?

So which is it? You say it is a lifestyle choice and then you say it's not. It's very much a choice.

Someone starves to death in this world every 2 seconds, and you guys act like the fact some churches might just be someone accepting of gays and lesbians, that all of civilization is at stake. This is just ridiculous. This entire thread was started because Obama was smeared as being some undercover Muslim, then someone points out that he can't be Christian because, oh its just so horrible, his Church does not exclude Gays and Lesbians.

Once again, why is is this subject is only mentioned a handful of times in the entire Bible, yet it is obvious that it is a huge issue many of you guys? Why is that? You would think that in a world where someone starved to death ever 2 seconds, that be a far bigger concern for many of the Religious Right than the fact that 3 to 5 percent of the population is gay, and always has been, and always will be. If these board were prioritized on how often something is mentioned in Scripture, for ever 200 threads on poverty, striving for peace and justice, and living simply, there would be 1 thread on homosexuality.

As a professing christian, you don't take this problem nearly seriously enough. It is not our civilization that is at stake, it's the person's salvation and eternal life that is at stake. You don't seem to get that. Perhaps we are so vehement on the subject because we would rather not see these people in this alternate life style be lost. Jesus certainly does not want them lost. You cannot be involved in a continuous, active homosexual lifestyle and be born again. Perhaps slip up once in awhile and fall, we all make mistakes, but to practice it endlessly day after day AFTER you are supposedly born again? No. You cannot use the starvation analogy. A starving person is not going to be judged for their actions. A person who actively pursues a homosexual lifestyle will be held in judgement, they are willfully throwing their lives away. This doesn't bother you? Once again, the problem is not that they are in the church. The problem is that the church fails to confront them about the sin, any kind of sin, that is going to jeapordize their salvation. That is the problem. We are held just as accountable as the person commiting the sin when we know it's there but fail to counsel a brother or sister about it. As for your quotes from other posters, I'm sure you could find just as many, if not more that simply want these people to get out of that lifestyle and into a right relationship with their Savior. That's what needs to happen, not a rationalizing of the sin, no matter what it is.

preach it!!!

[forrestkc]

Ok. Does that mean that you would not have a problem with pedophiles? After all, it's just a different lifestyle, right?

See, I don't even think you realize it, but you only proved my point. Equating Homosexuality to pedophilia is hatemongering. It just is. In the case of homosexuality, you have individuals who are attracted to members of the same sex, and enter into consensual relationships with other adult gays or lesbians.

In the case of pedophilia, you have adults who pray upon children for sexual gratification, in some cases preying on babies.

It is not the same thing. Even in scripture it is not the same thing and harming children is far more severely condemned.

So which is it? You say it is a lifestyle choice and then you say it's not. It's very much a choice.

I never said that sexual orientation is a choice. There is not a shred of empirical evidence to suggest that it is. The only choice involved is whether they choose to be active or never enter into any kind of relationship.

As a professing christian, you don't take this problem nearly seriously enough. It is not our civilization that is at stake, it's the person's salvation and eternal life that is at stake. You don't seem to get that. Perhaps we are so vehement on the subject because we would rather not see these people in this alternate life style be lost. Jesus certainly does not want them lost. You cannot be involved in a continuous, active homosexual lifestyle and be born again. Perhaps slip up once in awhile and fall, we all make mistakes, but to practice it endlessly day after day AFTER you are supposedly born again? No. You cannot use the starvation analogy. A starving person is not going to be judged for their actions. A person who actively pursues a homosexual lifestyle will be held in judgement, they are willfully throwing their lives away. This doesn't bother you? Once again, the problem is not that they are in the church. The problem is that the church fails to confront them about the sin, any kind of sin, that is going to jeapordize their salvation. That is the problem. We are held just as accountable as the person commiting the sin when we know it's there but fail to counsel a brother or sister about it.

I understand what you are saying. However, whether or not they enter into the Kingdom of Heaven is up to God and is between them and God. You or I or anyone else can tell them the activity is defined as a sin in scripture, however, its up to them to chose how they want to live their life, not us, and in the end, it will be between them and God.