Is Eternal Life Available to All?

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Shaman,

Thank you for answering my questions.

It is love that Jesus speaks of with the lawyer that is necessary to gain eternal life. This love will wax cold in many who are saved. Others will be deceived by false prophets and therefore miss the understanding of the Word of God (Jesus).

Unbelievers are saved to see and enter the kingdom of God, but they must follow the teachings of the Word to enter into it. Yes, we must believe on Jesus to gain eternal life, but that means believing the Word of God. I have given you just two of Jesus important teachings. Do you believe them? Because, the corollary of John 3:16 is whosoever does not believe in the Word of God will perish, and not gain everlasting life.

You continue to speak as though through some effort on our part that we might receive salvation. I am compelled to recall these verses:

Eph 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Romans 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

If our salvation is by "grace", then it is no longer by works. Our "faith" comes from Him to enable us to believe. Love most certainly is a "work" because it is not a touchy-feely kind of love, but one of ACTION, and this comes subsequent to our accepting God's good grace by faith.

Subsequent to our "faith", then is works, AND perserverence to the very end to carry our cross as far as it will go. There is NO turning back.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[eric]

Thank you OA for answering for me. I was going to add a rider,but I am only a lay-man and who am I to argue with someone who has pastored a methodist church in seven states in America. My son-in-law was a lay preacher in a methodist church over here,but he and my daughter left when the church was considering of training up homosexuals to be ordained as ministers and the methodist church became divided and combined with the presbyterian church, which is at this present time setting up a programme for the training of and accepting homosexual ministers. So pardon me if I dont put any credence in any thing that comes from the mouth of ministers of mainstream churches,especially on the internet, when I have no way of checking if they are who they say are and more especially when they have only been posting on this board for five minutes. DE asked the man to be honest, so I hope he will be without being offended

I shall watch and wait........... meantime, be blessed.

[Guest Calamity]

Shaman: "Keep in mind that Jesus

[Guest Calamity]

I tried to post only the link to this commentary, but had copied it wrong, so here is the main part of it:

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1. (25-29) A lawyer asks a question

a. The lawyer (an expert in the Jewish Mosaic and Rabbinic law) tested Jesus; but the idea behind tested isn't necessarily mean or evil. This may have been a sincere question from a sincere seeker

b. The lawyer asked about eternal life; eternal life, in the Biblical understanding of the idea, doesn't refer to a duration of life (every person is immortal, either in heaven or hell), and it doesn't refer to a life that begins when we die. Eternal life is a particular quality of life, a life that comes from God, a life we can have right now

c. Jesus points the lawyer back to What is written in the law; if the question is what shall I do to inherit eternal life, the answer is simple: keep the law of God, and keep it perfectly

d. The lawyer was wise enough to know what was the essence of the law - that we love God with all that we are, and that we love our neighbor as ourselves. Now all the man has to do is to live it!

i. It is clear enough what it means to love God with all we are (though exceeding difficulty to do!); but there has been much confusion about what it means to love your neighbor as yourself. This doesn't mean that we must love ourselves before we can love anyone else; it means that in the same way we take care of ourselves and our concerned about our own interests, we should take care and have concern for the interests of others

e. The lawyer measured himself against both commands; he figured that he met the first one well enough, but his keeping of the second commandment depended on how you defined "neighbor"

i. His first, and perhaps greatest mistake was in assuming that he had fulfilled the first commandment. When we really consider what the words mean, who among us has loved God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind? It is easy for us to distract any one of these areas even when we worship God!

ii. His second mistake was in thinking that he could fulfil the commandment to love God with all he had and still possibly not fulfil the command to love his neighbor. If someone says, "I love God," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also. (1 John 4:20-21)

iii. His third mistake was in the way that he wanted to narrowly define neighbor. If only our friends and those who are easy to love are our neighbors, then perhaps this man fulfills it. It all depends on how broad the definition

is. The Jews in Jesus' day did believe that you had to love your neighbor; but they also taught that it was a duty before God to hate your enemy. It all depends on who your neighbor is and who your enemy is!

2. (30-35) Jesus defines neighbor with an illustration

a. The road from Jerusalem to Jericho was infamous for crime and muggings; it wasn't surprising to Jesus' listeners that He sets the story on this particular road

b. The priest and the Levite (both categories of religious officials) see their Jewish brother lying in his terrible state; but neither of them do anything. They both passed by on the other side

i. Think of all the excuses that they could have used: "This road is too dangerous for me to stop and help the man"; "He might be a decoy for an ambush"; "I've got to get to the temple and perform my service for the Lord"; "I've got to get home and see my family"; "Someone really should help that man"; "If I'm going to serve at the temple I can't get my clothes bloody"; "I don't know first aid"; "It's a hopeless case"; "I'm only one person; the job is too big"; "I can pray for him"; "He brought it on himself, he should have never been alone on such a dangerous road"; "He never asked for help"

ii. "I never knew a man refuse to help the poor who failed to give at least one admirable excuse." (Spurgeon)

c. When Jesus' listeners heard about the priest and the Levite, the probably expected Jesus to say that a common Jewish man came and helped, that the story would be another way Jesus showed how lacking the religious leaders were in his day. But Jesus shocks them by saying that the man who helped was a Samaritan

d. What was special about a Samaritan? Generally speaking, Jews and Samaritans despised each other both racially and religiously; the culture gave the Samaritan plenty of reasons to hate this Jewish man and pass him by

i. Some rabbis taught that a Jew was forbidden to help a Gentile woman who was in distress giving birth; because if they succeeded, all they did was to help one more Gentile come into the world. They often thought that Samaritans were worse than other Gentiles

e. Instead, the Samaritan loved him with a sacrificial love; he didn't wait to be asked, for to see the need right in front of him was enough to compel him to action. He also gave freely of both his time and his resources

i. The wine, containing alcohol, would have had an antiseptic effect on the man's wounds. The oil would have been helpful to soothe the wounds, easing the pain. To set him on his own animal means that the Samaritan himself walked

ii. It seems that two denarii would have provided for the man's needs in the inn for at least two or three weeks

3. (36-37) Jesus applies the parable

a. According to the thinking of the day, the priest and the Levite were neighbor to the man who had been mugged. But they didn't act like neighbors at all

b. The Samaritan (the lawyer can't even bring himself to say that name), who we might have expected to be an enemy, was instead a neighbor - who showed mercy on him

i. Obviously, the lawyer knew that he could no longer justify himself. He did not have this kind of love, a love that would go beyond what he wanted to think of as "neighbor"

c. So, who is my neighbor? Who is the one I have to love? The one who others might consider my enemy. The one with a need right in front of me

i. This doesn't mean running after every need that might present itself (the Samaritan didn't establish a hospital for unfortunate travellers), just a concern for the ones plain before us (both social and spiritual needs)

ii. "The world would be a changed place if every Christian attended to the sorrows that are plain before him" (Maclaren)

4. What if you don't have this kind of love, either for God or for man?

a. Stop trying to inherit life by doing - instead, believe on Jesus; trust God that Jesus paid the penalty you deserve for every time you have fallen short of loving God or loving others the way you should

b. When you receive eternal life - God's kind of life in you - God will give you the resources to love Him and others as you should. You can't do it apart from having His life in you

i. "Let it never be forgotten that what the law demands of us the gospel really produces in us." (Spurgeon)

[Guest Shaman]

Dad Ernie:

You continue to speak as though through some effort on our part that we might receive salvation. I am compelled to recall these verses:

Dad Ernie, it may be difficult for you to understand, but my opening post did not mention anything about salvation. Every Christian should know that salvation is freely given to the believer. This is a subject you keep bringing up. Somehow you equate being saved with automatic eternal life. I challenge you to find that in the Bible. I explained to you that I wanted to talk about one's relationship with God outside of Christianity and eternal life.

If you are saved that's fine. Three million Israelites were saved in the Exodus story and all but two perished. So, I will ask you, now that you are saved what are you going to do? Are you going to follow the instructions that come from the Word of God? That is why power is given to the saved, so they might be empowered to heed the commandments to God.

If our salvation is by "grace", then it is no longer by works. Our "faith" comes from Him to enable us to believe. Love most certainly is a "work" because it is not a touchy-feely kind of love, but one of ACTION, and this comes subsequent to our accepting God's good grace by faith.

Subsequent to our "faith", then is works, AND perserverence to the very end to carry our cross as far as it will go. There is NO turning back.

My point for this discussion, if you will allow me to speak about what I posted, is there are people who already have a passion for God that comes from their highest emotion

Edited December 22, 2003 by Shaman

[Guest Shaman]

Eric:

I'll just pray for you! God bless.

Shaman

[Guest LadyC]

i fail to comprehend how one can discuss eternal life without discussing salvation. bottom line is, all of us have a soul that will live eternally. those who accept Christ as our savior, because scripture tells us that ONLY Christ is our intercessor with the father and has paid the penalty for our sins, and no man cometh unto the Father but by Him, will live eternally in heaven and know no more pain or sorrow.

those who do not accept the gift of Christ's salvation will live eternally in the anguish of eternal damnation, in the fires of hell.

you're an ordained minister and you do not understand this very basic concept? do you preach to your congregation that they can get to heaven any way they choose?

do you fail to teach them about idolatry? (and worshipping buddah, allah, mother earth, one's devine self, or anyone other than the God of Abraham, is idolatry!)

how can one be a minister and yet fail to teach the truth and significance of Christ's death and ressurection? if they can have eternall life by any other means, then it invalidates what Christ did for us.

i'm glad i'm not a member of your congregation... you seem to either be very confused about Christianity, or you stubbornly deny the very tenets of the faith, and thus lead those in your congregation astray.

[eric]

Well bless you LadyC, You said what I wanted to say, but I held my silence because I am a bit inclined to get carried away sometimes as many posters on this board can testify. How can anyone claim to be a pastor of seven churches if they dont know the basics of christianity that was revealed to us by Christ and Him crucified?

Shaman, thak you for praying for me. I need all the prayer I can get. Have a blessed day in Jesus.........eric.

[Guest Shaman]

Calamity:

If you are going to use this as an example of how to have eternal life, then, don't leave out this part as well: Matthew 19

[16] And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

[17] And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

[18] He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

[19] Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

[20] The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

[21] Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

[22] But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

So, do we sell all that we have and give it to the poor in order to have everlasting life?

You must study Scripture to understand the teachings of Christ as a concept. You have to see the big picture that he paints for us. There is a consistency in his teaching. The consistent points in this Scripture compared to the last Scripture was the question of eternal life and the immediate answer -- the commandments. The greatest commandment for the Jewish people was the first love commandment, love the Lord thy God. That was the same teaching he gave to the lawyer for eternal life.

The additional words Jesus gave concerning his wealth was in response to the question he asked him: "what yet do I lack?" It was then that Jesus told him to give his wealth to the poor. He was attached to his wealth and that hindered him in following the instruction of the Lord. That is idolatry. It is better to deny yourselves, pick up your cross, and follow Jesus, than to enjoy the pleasures of this world for a season, and then be miserable for eternity. The rich young ruler could not understand that concept. Neither do many Christians today. Jesus was instructing him in perfection. "If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven, then come and follow me."

To answer your question: If you ask the Lord what you lack in order to attain eternal life, and he tells you then do it. Everyone does not have the same material attachment. But, the lesson to be learned is that we are to shed all attachments that keep us from following God. Many are trapped by the illusion that sense gratification is the goal of life, therefore in many areas of our life we are unable to be submissive to spiritual instruction from the Lord. Like this young ruler Jesus wants us to be free from that which holds us captive, and would keep us from gaining eternal life. This is an elemental concept of Christianity.

Only those who have accepted Christ as their personal Savior, and have His Spirit have a saving relationship with God and have eternal life. Many, many people love others, do good works, and seem on the exterior to be model Christians, but do not have a personal relationship with Christ. It's not the works we do, it is the work He did on the cross. Our works do not earn us anything other than rewards. We cannot "earn" or merit our salvation. If we got what we merited, on our own, we'd all be going to hell.

"By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another." So, is it those who have accepted Christ as their personal Savior, who will have eternal life? He will tell some of them to depart from me I never knew you. Maybe it is those who have his spirit and a saving relationship with God that will gain eternal life. That is what I believe, but I see that you are fluctuating between God and Christ. Well they are the same, aren't they? Besides, Christ did always point us the Father and never to himself. Concerning his work on the cross, that was for all mankind was it not? or just for those in the religion named after him? Jesus says, many who are saved will be deceived, and their love will wax cold, and they will not endure to the end. Paul talks about baby Christians, they won't endure to the end. Jesus also said that few will find the narrow gate and enter there in. So, most are on the road to destruction.

I do not know how a Buddhist or any of the eastern religions can have a saving relationship with Christ, when as far as I know, they do not believe He is who He is, but only "a" prophet. A prophet cannot save you, forgive your sins, die on a cross for our sins, and raise from the dead, and ascend to Heaven, then come again. A prophet cannot offer as a free gift to all who believe, eternal life. Jesus was more than just a prophet.

First of all Christianity is also an eastern religion as well as Judaism. But, actually there is only one religion and that is fear (love) God and obey his commandments. He is the Word of God, and there are many who are better at obeying the Word of God than many Christians. The Gospels are full of them. It is amazing, like the Samaritan who obeyed the commandment of God, maybe because it was written on his heart.

Neither did Jesus at any time in NT Scripture offer eternal life to all who believed. It is just not in the Bible.

I notice that you have given me a web address for commentary helps. Thanks, but I am not in need of them. I also notice in your next post you have copied one for me. I would suggest that you reread it. However, I really wanted to know how you felt, not someone else.

Peace,

Shaman

[Guest shiloh357]

My point for this discussion, if you will allow me to speak about what I posted, is there are people who already have a passion for God that comes from their highest emotion