Is Eternal Life Available to All?

December 22, 2003

Shaman, my name, Calamity is my dog's name. Her picture is below in my "signature". Calamity Jessie Jane.

I took for granted you meant believe in Him, when you said "believe".

I did NOT know you made a typo in the other part, but when you explained that, I did not repeat my comments on it.

What, exactly is your definition of 'salvation', and your definition of 'eternal life', and your definition of our 'divine self'? If that was clearer, then it might be easier to discuss.

December 22, 2003

calamity, give up. no offense, but your wasting your time. shaman is not interested in the truth, nor in leading others to Christ. he seems only to be interested in trying to draw people AWAY from Christ. a methodist priest? he should be reported and have his ordination revoked. he sounds like a universalist to me.

and shaman, i must say this... you told eric you'd pray for him. well, please don't pray for me, under any circumstances. i don't know who hears your prayers.

Lady C, no offense taken, and please don't take offense at my reply. If someone is saying something that is likely to draw people AWAY from Christ, it's almost impossible for me to not reply. Same with another poster who has not posted for a while now, that said some unbiblical things and persisted in trying to teach us. It needs to be replied to with Scripture, IMO. We don't know who all reads this message board, and if some things are let go, then non-Christians, or new Christians can be led astray and harmed spiritually, or never come to know Christ at all. That's why I try to reply to certain things.

you are absolutely correct, of course.

December 22, 2003

Shiloh357:

Shaman, would you please describe what you mean by "divine self"? I suppose that since that is part of your main point for discussion, I am not getting you off the subject.

You are a combination of flesh, soul and spirit. That which is flesh is flesh, but that which is spirit is Spirit. Spirit is divine. You can walk after your flesh, as you know, or you can walk after you spirit. That is the part of you that is divine.

i fail to comprehend how one can discuss eternal life without discussing salvation

You can't. The two are the same. He is grasping at straws in a futile attempt to make the distinction. He is also ignoring rest of the NT. He is doing what is called "Isogesis." It is a form of biblical interpretation where you pour YOUR meaning into scripture instead of allowing the Bible speak for itself, and interpret istelf. When one believes on Christ, he or she automatically recieves eternal life, and is saved from Hell. That is Christianity 101. John 5:24, and 1 John 5:11-13 tell us that we can know that we have eternal life right now.

John 5:24 says: "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."

The prerequisite here is that one must hear Jesus' words, and not hear only but do. Be not hearers of the word only, but doers as well. If you reject his words, then you do not meet the qualification for eternal life.

1 John 5:10-13 says: "He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.'

First one must believeth on the Son of God (as I said before, on, in, in his word, etc.). The Son of God, is the Word of God. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The Word wrapped himself in flesh and we knew him as Jesus. But, unless you know him beyond his earthly manifestation you will never know the deeper things of the Word of God that will allow you entrance into the kingdom. You must believe on what he represents and that is God's word. You reject his Word, you are rejecting his Son. Study the Scriptures for yourself. Ask the Holy Spirit. Don't accept some false doctrine that will cause you to miss God's kingdom.

Shaman

December 22, 2003

Calamity:

Sorry! Yours is your dog, mine is Carlos Santana! Who knew, but we shouldn't care.

It is the same which Jesus taught Nicodemus.

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

When we are born of the holy Spirit of God, we are new creatures. We are empowered to love in way that we had not before. We are empowered to behave in a totally different way than we did in the flesh. They who are in the flesh are in the flesh, but they that are in the Spirit do the things of the spirit, or their divine self. But, we must continue to deny ourselves, pick up our cross and follow Christ. We are empowered to do so, but we can't just give up. Christ didn't. If we give up our love will wax cold. We will be subdued by wolves in sheeps clothing and we will follow after there teachings. We have got to hold on to the first Gospel that was given -- the Gospel of Christ. It is by following him and his words that we will be led to the Father, or eternal life.

Peace,

Sharman

December 22, 2003

OK, I have a big problem with the phrase "divine self". Nothing of our 'self' is divine - only Christ in us. That is not our self. That is Christ. Our self is not divine.

I also do not agree with you separating salvation and eternal life. It sounds like you are saying we have to do works to have eternal life, or salvation. Or that without works, it is only salvation, with works, it's eternal life. You are separating the two, as if they are not the same.

December 22, 2003

maybe you'll answer some questions for me.

Christ is the Word of God. do you believe that the word was sent from God to become flesh by birth to a virgin?

Do you believe that the word of God, was sent for the sole purpose of being a living sacrifice, to die and pay the penalty for our sins?

Do you believe that the Word of God, through that crucifixion, fulfilled the LAW that required God's people to give sacrificial offerings?

Do you believe that the Word of God was resurrected on the third day?

Do you preach these truths to your congregation?

Do you teach your congregation that they are not to worship any other god? (i asked you this already and you ignored the question.)

and do you really teach your congregation that your own spirit is devine? isn't it the spirit of God living within us that is devine, and not our own?

i ask these things because of what you said:

The Word wrapped himself in flesh and we knew him as Jesus. But, unless you know him beyond his earthly manifestation you will never know the deeper things of the Word of God that will allow you entrance into the kingdom. You must believe on what he represents and that is God's word. You reject his Word, you are rejecting his Son.

if you believe on what He represents, and that is God's word, then you HAVE TO BELIEVE that no man enters the kingdom of heaven without accepting Christ's death and ressurrection as the only way in.

yet everything you have said thus far absolutely denies this truth.

You must believe on what he represents and that is God's word. You reject his Word, you are rejecting his Son.

if you reject the truth and significance of Christ's death on the cross, His ressurection, as being the ONLY way to eternal life, then YOU are rejecting the Word, the Son of God. you have to believe in what his crucifixion and ressurection represent.

Study the Scriptures for yourself. Ask the Holy Spirit. Don't accept some false doctrine that will cause you to miss God's kingdom.

very good advice. i won't accept your false doctrine.

i might add... if it is your own spirit, and not that of God's living within, that is devine, then your devine self is going to live eternally in the lake of fire with great wailing and gnashing of teeth.

December 22, 2003

Somehow you equate being saved with automatic eternal life. I challenge you to find that in the Bible. I explained to you that I wanted to talk about one's relationship with God outside of Christianity and eternal life.

There is no relationship to God outside of Christianity and eternal life. The Jews will accept the Messiah in the tribulation.

My point for this discussion, if you will allow me to speak about what I posted, is there are people who already have a passion for God that comes from their highest emotion

December 22, 2003

-My point for this discussion, if you will allow me to speak about what I posted, is there are people who already have a passion for God that comes from their highest emotion

December 22, 2003

Lady C:

I've answered your questions before. You said it was heretical teaching. Your motives are not sincere. Why answer more when you rejected all these responses as not being God words.

You say, "The rest is how we are to live our lives on earth, not how to gain entrance into heaven." I do agree with the first part of your message. However, Jesus (the Word) instructed us throughout his ministry to seek the kingdom of God. He instructed Nicodemus about seeing and entering the kingdom. Many of his parables were centered around searching for the kingdom. His constant message was the kingdom of heaven, or God, is at hand.