Drivers licence emerges as "crime fighting" tool

[buckthesystem]

Face recognition technology used to be highly illegal not very long ago. When did it suddenly become acceptable? Or rather when did the government decide that peoples' privacy just isn't important any more?

An interesting point in this article is: "

[Leonard]

The Supreme Court has ruled 2 or 3 times in the last few years that driving is a 'right' NOT a licensable 'priviledge' granted by the State, and that ALL AMERICANS have the RIGHT to drive an automobile, and are NOT required to have a driver's license to do so!

Now this gets very convoluted in the Federal Registry, but two brothers--both lawyers--I know, spent every free moment for about 2 years, filing one piece of paperwork after another; going to one court hearing after another, until FINALLY they PROVED to the courts that they were not required to have a driver's license, OR EVEN A LICENSE PLATE on their cars, and they proved THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A TRAFFIC LAW, so there are NO traffic violations, and no traffic tickets should ever be given.

In fact the state of Arizona sent a letter out to EVERY law enforcement entity--every local police department--Indian Tribal Police on every reservation--each org of the state highway patrol--each county sheriff's department--that they WERE NOT to pull these guys over for any traffic violations anywhere in Arizona. They could ONLY be pulled over if the officer saw a CRIMINAL violation.

These two guys drive judges NUTS!!!

[buckthesystem]

The Supreme Court has ruled 2 or 3 times in the last few years that driving is a 'right' NOT a licensable 'priviledge' granted by the State, and that ALL AMERICANS have the RIGHT to drive an automobile, and are NOT required to have a driver's license to do so!

Now this gets very convoluted in the Federal Registry, but two brothers--both lawyers--I know, spent every free moment for about 2 years, filing one piece of paperwork after another; going to one court hearing after another, until FINALLY they PROVED to the courts that they were not required to have a driver's license, OR EVEN A LICENSE PLATE on their cars, and they proved THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A TRAFFIC LAW, so there are NO traffic violations, and no traffic tickets should ever be given.

In fact the state of Arizona sent a letter out to EVERY law enforcement entity--every local police department--Indian Tribal Police on every reservation--each org of the state highway patrol--each county sheriff's department--that they WERE NOT to pull these guys over for any traffic violations anywhere in Arizona. They could ONLY be pulled over if the officer saw a CRIMINAL violation.

These two guys drive judges NUTS!!!

So if "ALL AMERICANS have the RIGHT to drive an automobile, and are NOT required to have a driver's license to do so" then why did the state of Arizona say that ONLY these two blokes were "not to be pulled over for any traffic violations"?

If this applies to all Americans then nobody should ever be pulled over for a supposed "traffic violation" or for "having an unregistered car" at all, ever!

This should be better publicised, then we would'nt have so many silly bureaucrats with delusions of grandeur and power in the DMV, and a "database" of almost the entire population to be used with face recognition software.

[Eliyahuw]

The Supreme Court has ruled 2 or 3 times in the last few years that driving is a 'right' NOT a licensable 'priviledge' granted by the State, and that ALL AMERICANS have the RIGHT to drive an automobile, and are NOT required to have a driver's license to do so!

Now this gets very convoluted in the Federal Registry, but two brothers--both lawyers--I know, spent every free moment for about 2 years, filing one piece of paperwork after another; going to one court hearing after another, until FINALLY they PROVED to the courts that they were not required to have a driver's license, OR EVEN A LICENSE PLATE on their cars, and they proved THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A TRAFFIC LAW, so there are NO traffic violations, and no traffic tickets should ever be given.

In fact the state of Arizona sent a letter out to EVERY law enforcement entity--every local police department--Indian Tribal Police on every reservation--each org of the state highway patrol--each county sheriff's department--that they WERE NOT to pull these guys over for any traffic violations anywhere in Arizona. They could ONLY be pulled over if the officer saw a CRIMINAL violation.

These two guys drive judges NUTS!!!

So if "ALL AMERICANS have the RIGHT to drive an automobile, and are NOT required to have a driver's license to do so" then why did the state of Arizona say that ONLY these two blokes were "not to be pulled over for any traffic violations"?

If this applies to all Americans then nobody should ever be pulled over for a supposed "traffic violation" or for "having an unregistered car" at all, ever!

This should be better publicised, then we would'nt have so many silly bureaucrats with delusions of grandeur and power in the DMV, and a "database" of almost the entire population to be used with face recognition software.

Its because too many people will just comply.

[Axxman]

I could care less about this kinda stuff. The gov't can look at my face all day long if they want. I have no problem getting a drivers license or following BASIC safety laws for the betterment of EVERYONE on the streets.

This deal about two Arizona guys sounds more like an Urban Legend. I don't thinks its true. I happen to know that Arizona has a high arrest rate for Driving on a suspended license...so it seems unlikely that two guys could just do whatever they want.

[abbershay]

I would really hate to drive with no traffic rules , its bad enough with them. Do you have any proof of what you say because i know a lot of people who have payed fines needlessly....

[Leonard]

I could care less about this kinda stuff. The gov't can look at my face all day long if they want. I have no problem getting a drivers license or following BASIC safety laws for the betterment of EVERYONE on the streets.

This deal about two Arizona guys sounds more like an Urban Legend. I don't thinks its true. I happen to know that Arizona has a high arrest rate for Driving on a suspended license...so it seems unlikely that two guys could just do whatever they want.

Not an urban legend; these are folks I've known for 30 years or so. If you want to contact one of them go on the web and look up Jail House Lawyer. Many will probably pop up, but when you see one that has a picture of guy laying down on a jail bed, wearing a checkered shirt, and his face covered with a cowboy hat....THAT'S THE GUY.

The reason folks are still pulled over and ticketed, and pay them, is because they have NOT asserted their rights. courts will not generally tell you what your rights are, they will simply egregiously violate them, while your attorney, who is typically also WOEFULLY ignorant of the law, but VERY knowledgable about court procedures, will look on blankly, as if everything were being done properly.

In fact, one of these guys helped found JAIL FOR JUDGES, and has successfully put corrupt judges in prison.

[buckthesystem]

I could care less about this kinda stuff. The gov't can look at my face all day long if they want. I have no problem getting a drivers license or following BASIC safety laws for the betterment of EVERYONE on the streets.

This deal about two Arizona guys sounds more like an Urban Legend. I don't thinks its true. I happen to know that Arizona has a high arrest rate for Driving on a suspended license...so it seems unlikely that two guys could just do whatever they want.

So you feel that government should have the tools to violate others' rights because you don't "care about this kinda stuff" and you feel that you can trust the government never to make mistakes or abuse power even if the legality of this "power" is questionable.

How about getting back to me when you have spent time in jail, lost a great deal of money as a result, and possibly been beaten up in jail - maybe lost some teeth - because this particular sotware is notoriously unreliable? Yes, this happens quite a lot really. And don't expect the government to compensate you for any of this. You might have enough trouble performing the miracle of getting any of them to accept accountability, but liability - never!

[Axxman]

So you feel that government should have the tools to violate others' rights because you don't "care about this kinda stuff" and you feel that you can trust the government never to make mistakes or abuse power even if the legality of this "power" is questionable.

How about getting back to me when you have spent time in jail, lost a great deal of money as a result, and possibly been beaten up in jail - maybe lost some teeth - because this particular sotware is notoriously unreliable? Yes, this happens quite a lot really. And don't expect the government to compensate you for any of this. You might have enough trouble performing the miracle of getting any of them to accept accountability, but liability - never!

I believe I have the "right" to serve God to the best of my ability based on what He has given me. I don't have the "right" to say what I want, because I am bound by my resposibility to God. The same goes for all the other so-called rights. American Christians are so spoiled. God has blessed me with the opportunity to serve His will in America, and part of that is to respect the government he has placed before me. If you were in China or Cuba I could spare you a little grief with the gov't.

How about some real-world stats on the number of people who are wrongly arrested because of facial recognition miscues, rather than a blanket statement used as a scare tactic. Better yet, back up the idea that many people "lose a great deal of money" or get regularly "beaten" in jail too. I'll bet those numbers are FAR LOWER than you suspect.

I am NOT scared of the gov't. My life is in God's hands. Do you realize how many Christians are beaten and jailed in this world simply for professing the name of Jesus? And you wanna worry about the ultra-slim chance of having your drivers license picture being recognized by facial recognition technology? I am simply not that worried about it...The bible clearly has a policy about not worrying about what 'might' happen tomorrow.

[Axxman]

Not an urban legend; these are folks I've known for 30 years or so. If you want to contact one of them go on the web and look up Jail House Lawyer. Many will probably pop up, but when you see one that has a picture of guy laying down on a jail bed, wearing a checkered shirt, and his face covered with a cowboy hat....THAT'S THE GUY.

The reason folks are still pulled over and ticketed, and pay them, is because they have NOT asserted their rights. courts will not generally tell you what your rights are, they will simply egregiously violate them, while your attorney, who is typically also WOEFULLY ignorant of the law, but VERY knowledgable about court procedures, will look on blankly, as if everything were being done properly.

In fact, one of these guys helped found JAIL FOR JUDGES, and has successfully put corrupt judges in prison.

Leonard...first I wanna apologize. I didn't realize you actually knew these people and it was not my intent to call you a liar or anything like that. I thought you were just relaying a story you'd heard...thats why I said it sounded like an urban legend.

Just for the record...JAIL4Judges has not put ANY judges in jail. It was resoundingly defeated by the state of South Dakota 89%-11%, in November. The people who run JAIL are pretty much thought of as conspiratorial wacko's. They have almost ZERO credibility. He was arrested for attempted burglary and served 6 days in jail, during which time he was unccoperative and was tased. You know these people?

I didn't see anything on the website that really stood out about drivers license law. I just spent about 2 hours reading over a unch of stuff on that site, and I disagreed with MUCH of it. He is obviously anti-police/law enforcement. I have a serious issue with that. He also claims to have the cure for Cancer, Heart Disease and other degenerative diseases. He is generous enough to sell the book to "members" for ONLY the cost of lab work. I saw no claims that he cannot be pulled over in Arizona while driving. It was more like reading a sales pitch with a bunch of liberty and freedom quotes thrown in.

More than anything, my impression of this guy is that he works to get guilty criminals out of jail. He finds some obscure technicality and runs with it wasting, who knows how, much gov't money with all his senseless appeals...just so he can get a murderer (its on his website), a DUI, an assault, etc...out of jail. It seems 50% of his website is devoted to selling his natural healing aids. I just don't get it.

Edited February 19, 2007 by Axxman