Hold on...

[ted]

[The Lorax]

I simply made the statement – that the BAND folks “appear to be gaining more faithful” than the “bird to dinos” group.

1) You didn't say "bird to dinos group." You said "feathered dinos" group. Check your post.

2) You've got it backwards. The consensus is birds FROM dinosaurs.

"The current scientific consensus holds that birds evolved from theropod dinosaurs."

--

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinosaur-bird_connection

3) There is no growing doubt in the bird-dinosaur connection. There are, however, a growing number of feathered dinosaur discoveries.

Sinosauropteryx (1996)

Protarchaeopteryx (1997)

Caudipteryx (1998)

Shuvuuia (1998)

Sinornithosaurus (1999)

Beipiaosaurus (1999)

Microraptor (2000)

Epidendrosaurus (2002)

Cryptovolans (2002)

Scansoriopteryx (2002)

Yixianosaurus (2003)

Dilong (2004)

Pedopenna (2005)

Jinfengopteryx (2005)

Sinocalliopteryx (2007) --

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feathered_dinosaurs

15 species of feathered dinosaur.

Edited March 19, 2007 by The Lorax

[The Lorax]

So you've abandoned your statement about feathered dinosaurs?

Your original statement:

the ‘Birds Are Not Dinosaurs' ... appear to be gaining more faithful than the feathered dino group

That was your false claim, by the way. The feathered dinosaur "group" is pretty ubiquitous in light of the discovery of feathered dinosaurs fossils. 15 species and counting.

Sinosauropteryx (1996)

Protarchaeopteryx (1997)

Caudipteryx (1998)

Shuvuuia (1998)

Sinornithosaurus (1999)

Beipiaosaurus (1999)

Microraptor (2000)

Epidendrosaurus (2002)

Cryptovolans (2002)

Scansoriopteryx (2002)

Yixianosaurus (2003)

Dilong (2004)

Pedopenna (2005)

Jinfengopteryx (2005)

Sinocalliopteryx (2007) --

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feathered_dinosaurs

Edited March 19, 2007 by The Lorax

[The Lorax]

Is that the basis for calling me a liar? Do you simply call anyone a liar who disagrees with your opinion? Whose “opinion” is correct after all? You need to retract the liar accusation, mate it makes you look small.

I think John Ruben (Professor of Zoology at Oregon State University) probably expresses my current opinion best when he wrote:

“We now question very strongly whether there were any feathered dinosaurs at all. What have been called feathered dinosaurs were probably flightless birds."

The 7-year-old quote of single scientist does not trump the current scientific consensus in any subject. It is certainly not sufficient evidence of a growing trend.

And in the 7 years since John Ruben's quote, 8 new species of feathered dinosaurs have been discovered. The number of feathered dinosaurs fossil species has more than doubled, yet you claim that an increasing number of scientists believe there are none at all. A bold falsehood received a bold correction. Sorry if it hurt.

Edited March 19, 2007 by The Lorax

[The Lorax]

A fossil specimen count for each species (based on Wikipedia):

Sinosauropteryx -- multiple fossils

Protarchaeopteryx -- 1 or more

Caudipteryx -- multiple

Shuvuuia -- multiple (Mongolia)

Sinornithosaurus -- multiple

Beipiaosaurus -- multiple

Microraptor -- 6

Epidendrosaurus -- multiple

Cryptovolans -- 1 or more

Scansoriopteryx -- multiple

Yixianosaurus -- 1

Dilong -- 1

Pedopenna -- multiple

Jinfengopteryx -- 1

Sinocalliopteryx -- 1

__________________

= 28 fossils at the very least, and they are not all in China.

Do you think all 28+ fossils are fake? That would be impressive, especially considering they have been dated to be millions of years old.

[The Lorax]

So you believe that all feathered dinosaurs fossils are fake and/or actually bird fossils?

As a young Earth creationist, your ideology forces you to take the position that birds have no evolutionary relationship to dinosaurs. You are forced to deny any and all apparent transitional forms like feathered dinosaurs, call them fakes, just birds, whatever you need to do. Your young-Earth worldview requires it.

But you claim you've made this decision for a different reason. You claim that there is increasing doubt in feathered dinosaur fossils. This is, of course, false. A shoddy coverup for your religious motivations.

You've already admitted you have no actual involvement in science, now you just need to admit you're acting on faith. I would really like to improve my impression of you, Horizoneast, but I'd need to see some honesty.

Edited March 19, 2007 by The Lorax

[Guest Kalgatha]

hi, i just joined the forums, and for one reason or another it won't let me create a new topic! does anyone know why?

[ted]

hi, i just joined the forums, and for one reason or another it won't let me create a new topic! does anyone know why?

Welcome to Worthy, my friend.

May your time be blessed!

You must have 10 posts before you are able to start new threads.

t.

[The Lorax]

From the evidence I have seen I will continue to believe the fossils are most likely flightless birds (Occam's razor)

That statement has nothing to do with Occam's razor.

And let's remember that the evidence you have "seen" has a lot to do with the religious faith you have.

[The Lorax]

"Creationists are going to distort whatever arguments come up." -- A. F.

Feduccia is your favorite scientist to quote today, Horizoneast, but at the end of the day he is just another evolutionist. Someone who disagrees with you. Someone who must be ignored.

"These creationists are confusing an argument about minor details of evolution with the indisputable fact of evolution: Animals and plants have been changing." -- A. F.