Why Can't Men Believe what the Scriptures Say?

[apothanein kerdos]

Greek-English Lexicon, H.G. Liddell and Robert Scott. Revised by Henry Stuart Jones, 1968.

Kephale

11. 1 of things, extremity

a. In botany

b. In anatomy

c. Generally, top, brim of vessel ... capital of a column

d. In plural, source of a river, Herodotus 4.91 (but singular, mouth); generally, source, origin, orphic fragments 21a; starting point (examples: the head of time; the head of a month).2

Thank you for posting that, because it shows how you don't know how Greek functions. kephal only works as a source of something when used in plural form. In Ephesians 5, it's singular (kephale). This leaves it with the possible interpretations:

1) A master (authority)

2) Chief (authority)

3) Cornerstone (authority)

You just shot yourself in the foot firehill.

Really?

It is based on thousands of Greek writings roughly between 100BC to about AD 600 and notice it doesn't at all include any of the 'authority', 'final authority', 'rank' 'superior rank', 'leader' meanings.

Because Lidell and Scott rely on Classical Greek and not specifically Koine Greek. Get a Koine lexicon, such as Thayer's. Or, you could take a Greek class. This was in my vocab early on in learning Koine Greek - it always meant a master or a chief. Are you going to suggest that I learned Greek incorrectly because a primarily Classical dictionary didn't have that definition?

Regardless, it doesn't change the fact that kephal only means source in the plural form in both Classical and Koine Greek. In Koine, however, it means an authority in every instance.

[Guest Biblicist]

I do not see what that has to do with man being the head of the home, church. Is there some website you could link to?

Let's be literal, eh, literalist? Quote for me where the Bible says that the husband is the head of the 'home' and also quote where the Bible says that man is the head of the 'church'. I know that the Bible literaly nowhere says the husband is the head of the home and I also know that it literaly says that Christ (not man) is the head of the church.

Then again you can believe whatever you chose to no matter what the Bible lieteraly says.

P.S. the Greek, oikedespot, means 'the ruler of a household'.

firehill,

If you do not believe that the Bible is the infaliable word of God what good does it do for me to quote it to you? Maybe that's the conversation we ought to be having. Not this second order doctrine.

Until you believe that the Bible is the inspired, infaliable word of God, and until you can accept it as complete and authoritative, there really is no discussion worth having except that.

Insults have no place in studying and interpreting the Word of God. Nor do they have any place here on Worthy Boards.

Pleasent words are a honeycomb, sweet to the soul and healing to the bones.

[Guest Biblicist]

Luke and Matthew give an accout of Christ's talk about a watchman being set as ruler over his household by God. A faithful servant set in a place of authority to watch over what God has apointed him. Faithful servant over household and congregtion.

Matthew 24:45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?

Luke 12:42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom [his] lord shall make ruler over his household, to give [them their] portion of meat in due season?

In these verses according to Strongs.

his ~ autos {ow-tos'}

1) himself, herself, themselves, itself

2) he, she, it 3) the same

[Floatingaxe]

Luke and Matthew give an accout of Christ's talk about a watchman being set as ruler over his household by God. A faithful servant set in a place of authority to watch over what God has apointed him. Faithful servant over household and congregtion.

Matthew 24:45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?

Luke 12:42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom [his] lord shall make ruler over his household, to give [them their] portion of meat in due season?

In these verses according to Strongs.

his ~ autos {ow-tos'}

1) himself, herself, themselves, itself

2) he, she, it 3) the same

The steward was an appointee, an employee, with limited authority. The "lord" was the lord of the household.

[firehill]

I do not see what that has to do with man being the head of the home, church. Is there some website you could link to?

Let's be literal, eh, literalist? Quote for me where the Bible says that the husband is the head of the 'home' and also quote where the Bible says that man is the head of the 'church'. I know that the Bible literaly nowhere says the husband is the head of the home and I also know that it literaly says that Christ (not man) is the head of the church.

Then again you can believe whatever you chose to no matter what the Bible lieteraly says.

P.S. the Greek, oikedespot, means 'the ruler of a household'.

firehill,

If you do not believe that the Bible is the infaliable word of God what good does it do for me to quote it to you? Maybe that's the conversation we ought to be having. Not this second order doctrine.

Until you believe that the Bible is the inspired, infaliable word of God, and until you can accept it as complete and authoritative, there really is no discussion worth having except that.

Insults have no place in studying and interpreting the Word of God. Nor do they have any place here on Worthy Boards.

Pleasent words are a honeycomb, sweet to the soul and healing to the bones.

Bib,

I do believe in the infaliable word of God but it's inerrancy and my belief in it has nothing to do with how all legitimate context is considered within it. It is infaliable and it was also written over 2,000 years ago.

I wasn't insulting. I was being as plain as I can get. I made my point as clear as possible. You didn't miss it. You are a literalist, so be it, but also be consistent then.

[firehill]

Luke and Matthew give an accout of Christ's talk about a watchman being set as ruler over his household by God. A faithful servant set in a place of authority to watch over what God has apointed him. Faithful servant over household and congregtion.

Matthew 24:45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?

Luke 12:42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom [his] lord shall make ruler over his household, to give [them their] portion of meat in due season?

In these verses according to Strongs.

his ~ autos {ow-tos'}

1) himself, herself, themselves, itself

2) he, she, it 3) the same

The steward was an appointee, an employee, with limited authority. The "lord" was the lord of the household.

Isn't this speaking of a steward without regard to gender?

[Guest Biblicist]

Correct The Lord is the lord over the household, all mankind. The steward, faithful and wise servant is placed/appointed over the household, with limited authority, always refering to God as the ultimate authority, till Christ's return.

[Guest Biblicist]

Luke and Matthew give an accout of Christ's talk about a watchman being set as ruler over his household by God. A faithful servant set in a place of authority to watch over what God has apointed him. Faithful servant over household and congregtion.

Matthew 24:45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?

Luke 12:42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom [his] lord shall make ruler over his household, to give [them their] portion of meat in due season?

In these verses according to Strongs.

his ~ autos {ow-tos'}

1) himself, herself, themselves, itself

2) he, she, it 3) the same

The steward was an appointee, an employee, with limited authority. The "lord" was the lord of the household.

Isn't this speaking of a steward without regard to gender?

Taken in context of sripture no it is not.

[Kabowd]

Greek-English Lexicon, H.G. Liddell and Robert Scott. Revised by Henry Stuart Jones, 1968.

Kephale

11. 1 of things, extremity

a. In botany

b. In anatomy

c. Generally, top, brim of vessel ... capital of a column

d. In plural, source of a river, Herodotus 4.91 (but singular, mouth); generally, source, origin, orphic fragments 21a; starting point (examples: the head of time; the head of a month).2

Thank you for posting that, because it shows how you don't know how Greek functions. kephal only works as a source of something when used in plural form. In Ephesians 5, it's singular (kephale). This leaves it with the possible interpretations:

1) A master (authority)

2) Chief (authority)

3) Cornerstone (authority)

You just shot yourself in the foot firehill.

Really?

It is based on thousands of Greek writings roughly between 100BC to about AD 600 and notice it doesn't at all include any of the 'authority', 'final authority', 'rank' 'superior rank', 'leader' meanings.

Because Lidell and Scott rely on Classical Greek and not specifically Koine Greek. Get a Koine lexicon, such as Thayer's. Or, you could take a Greek class. This was in my vocab early on in learning Koine Greek - it always meant a master or a chief. Are you going to suggest that I learned Greek incorrectly because a primarily Classical dictionary didn't have that definition?

Regardless, it doesn't change the fact that kephal only means source in the plural form in both Classical and Koine Greek. In Koine, however, it means an authority in every instance.

[Guest shiloh357]

Greek-English Lexicon, H.G. Liddell and Robert Scott. Revised by Henry Stuart Jones, 1968.

Kephale

11. 1 of things, extremity

a. In botany

b. In anatomy

c. Generally, top, brim of vessel ... capital of a column

d. In plural, source of a river, Herodotus 4.91 (but singular, mouth); generally, source, origin, orphic fragments 21a; starting point (examples: the head of time; the head of a month).2

Thank you for posting that, because it shows how you don't know how Greek functions. kephal only works as a source of something when used in plural form. In Ephesians 5, it's singular (kephale). This leaves it with the possible interpretations:

1) A master (authority)

2) Chief (authority)

3) Cornerstone (authority)

You just shot yourself in the foot firehill.

Really?

It is based on thousands of Greek writings roughly between 100BC to about AD 600 and notice it doesn't at all include any of the 'authority', 'final authority', 'rank' 'superior rank', 'leader' meanings.

Because Lidell and Scott rely on Classical Greek and not specifically Koine Greek. Get a Koine lexicon, such as Thayer's. Or, you could take a Greek class. This was in my vocab early on in learning Koine Greek - it always meant a master or a chief. Are you going to suggest that I learned Greek incorrectly because a primarily Classical dictionary didn't have that definition?

Regardless, it doesn't change the fact that kephal only means source in the plural form in both Classical and Koine Greek. In Koine, however, it means an authority in every instance.

I would say that Apothenien Kerdos pretty much torpedoed Firehill's use of kephale.