Pick and Choose Laws

[Eliyahuw]

It depends on which laws you are talking about, NT laws or OT laws. There is a difference.

I was just wondering the other day, why don't women wear head coverings in church anymore. I knew a girl who wore hats to church every Sunday. She looked like an older lady but it was her trademark. I don't know if she still wears them. But that also goes along with a woman cutting their hair. The Bible says, in more than one place that a woman's hair is her crown and glory.

1 Corinthians 11:5-7 5 And every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head

[Eliyahuw]

It depends on which laws you are talking about, NT laws or OT laws. There is a difference.

I was just wondering the other day, why don't women wear head coverings in church anymore. I knew a girl who wore hats to church every Sunday. She looked like an older lady but it was her trademark. I don't know if she still wears them. But that also goes along with a woman cutting their hair. The Bible says, in more than one place that a woman's hair is her crown and glory.

1 Corinthians 11:5-7 5 And every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head

[Scarletprayers]

Shiloh, with the way your describing this, reading the Bible this way should/could do away with many of the differences that come up about the multitude of denoms. I never though about the fact that I read the Bible as a "whole" piece and it wasn't written that way. Puts a different slant on things I must admit. What other letter would you say has been taken completely out of context by not considering the the who, what, when, where and how that was the letters actual intent?

[Guest shiloh357]

Shiloh, with the way your describing this, reading the Bible this way should/could do away with many of the differences that come up about the multitude of denoms. I never though about the fact that I read the Bible as a "whole" piece and it wasn't written that way. Puts a different slant on things I must admit. What other letter would you say has been taken completely out of context by not considering the the who, what, when, where and how that was the letters actual intent?

The book of Galatians is another very good example. Paul wrote the book of Galatians to combat a single heresy. The Galatian church had been infiltrated by a heretical sect that had fooled them into thinking that they had to become physical Jews, members of national Israel in order to enter the Kingdom of God, in addition to believing in Jesus.

The book is regularly interpreted as being the kiss of death to Torah observance, and Messianic Jews who stay kosher or keep the Sabbath/Festivals, etc. are always being subjected to accusations of violating what Paul taught in Galatians.

Paul's rebuke of the Galatians particularly focused on one thing: Circumcision. Ritual circumicision of an adult is done for ONE reason, which is conversion to the Jewish religion. When an adult undergoes circumcision by a Rabbi, he is seeking to become a physical member of the nation of Israel, and by doing so, he is taking upon himself the responsibility of living as a Torah observant Jew.

The issue in Galatians was not whether or not it is wrong to keep the Torah, the Sabbath, stay kosher or any of that. That was not the problem, and Paul was in fact, a kosher Torah observant Jew until death. He would have been hypocritical to condemn Torah observance while observing it himself. So, that issue is not the object that Paul has in view.

Everything in Galatians needs to be read in the light of the fact that Paul is condemning the act of converting to Judaism as a means of adding to one's salvation. Actually many scholars believe that this letter was written before the council of Jerusalem convened in Acts 15. It was this very issue that they met to resolve. It is amazing that in that day the question on everyone's mind was, "how can uncircumcised Gentiles qualify for entrance into the Kingdom?" and today that debate has been stood on its head and now the question is, "how can a person be a Christian and still be a Jew?"

Let me ask you this... Have you ever considered that the Sermon on the Mount was originally preached to unsaved Jews? Try reading it in that light.

[Kabowd]

Proper interpretation and application would change everything and is probably *the* single reason why there are so many divisions. Historically, from the arguments over baptism and free will, to modern times when there are many divisions over worship and issues regarding "tolerance".... most of these divisions could be solved if people took the time to study and learn properly. Everyone cannot be right, someone is wrong. But instead of taking the time to study and learn, alot of people would rather accept some of the major differences as "preferences" and follow along with what they've been taught by someone else.

This is also why cults are so successful because very often they prey on vulnerable people who may be at an emotional disadvantage, then when you factor in biblcal half-truths and a welcoming "family", you can see how easily people fall victim to those sorts of things. But if we are diligent to heed the commands given in Scripture (to have a ready defense, to *know* the truth, to study hard, to love God with our minds, etc) then we will have the necessary tools to avoid false teaching.

Shiloh is very patient and generous in sharing his knowledge, but it's alot to ask someone to interpret multiple passages and letters. Some of you may recall a topic a while back where we attempted (some of us) to learn about proper biblical hermeneutics (Click Here for that topic) and suprisingly it was not very well received. In fact, it was outright, vehemently rejected and opposed by some. To this day, the responses to that topic honestly baffles me (and saddens me). Anyway, for those interested, you could read through the other topic I linked (there is alot of information in there despite the mini-battles over the necessity of it), and then another option would be to get books like Exegetical Fallacies by D.A. Carson or Bible Doctrine by Wayne Grudem. It's much more beneficial, wise (and Scriptural) to learn how to interpret the Word correctly yourself, rather than rely on someone else to do it for you. It's sort of like that old saying "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you've fed him for a lifetime".

[Scarletprayers]

I feel like I should apologize to Shiloh and just let this topic fade away. I didn't mean to put all of the "leg work" on Shiloh and sit back and reap the benefits.

I have the book Kabowd that you brought up and I am reading it, but I'm a kinda have to see it in action/discussion type person before things click in my head. Probably why I ask so many questions.

Any way my apologies Shiloh if I've taken advantage. I will go through the Sermon on the Mount and try to read it in light of what you've told me.

[Guest shiloh357]

I feel like I should apologize to Shiloh and just let this topic fade away. I didn't mean to put all of the "leg work" on Shiloh and sit back and reap the benefits.

I have the book Kabowd that you brought up and I am reading it, but I'm a kinda have to see it in action/discussion type person before things click in my head. Probably why I ask so many questions.

Any way my apologies Shiloh if I've taken advantage. I will go through the Sermon on the Mount and try to read it in light of what you've told me.

No need to apologize. I don't mind answering questions. I was taken back a bit when I was asked by someone else to lay down an interpretation of an entire chapter of the Bible, but I do not feel that you have imposed upon me.

Kabowd is right though, cults take advantage of a lack of biblical knowledge. The Mormons and JWs are the most successful cults because they use the Bible, and take advantage of Christians who are not able to refute their false interpretations.

[Scarletprayers]

Okay Shiloh since you have so graciously told me I can continue, I will. While reading the Sermon on the Mount, what should I be looking for that would make it ring differently from reading it as a sermon to me, as opposed to the Jews. I am what I am, and in the words of yod, a hellenistic type, why would it be different, not wanting you to give away or explain the whole thing, just give me some bullet points so I have and idea what I'm looking for.

[Kabowd]

I feel like I should apologize to Shiloh and just let this topic fade away. I didn't mean to put all of the "leg work" on Shiloh and sit back and reap the benefits.

I have the book Kabowd that you brought up and I am reading it, but I'm a kinda have to see it in action/discussion type person before things click in my head. Probably why I ask so many questions.

Any way my apologies Shiloh if I've taken advantage. I will go through the Sermon on the Mount and try to read it in light of what you've told me.

Hey sister, I don't mean to speak for Shiloh but I'm pretty sure he enjoys sharing and teaching with those who are patient and truly seeking to learn. I did not mean to imply that I thought it was wrong to seek his help. I apologize if my post came across that way. I know you aren't trying to be spiritually lazy or take advantage of anyone at all. If anything, I'd encourage people to be more like you; one who deeply desires to understand, asks questions, and listens to those who are wiser than herself. We should all be more teachable and be humble enough to learn from others....please don't change!

When there are others around (like shiloh, AK, Ovedya, EricH and others) who are clearly well-studied on Scripture, I think it's very wise for us to ask their advice, input and to ask them to help us to understand things. It's foolish not to. What I was trying to convey is that if we learn interpretation for ourselves, then we become wiser and less dependent on others to help us interpret things. We'll still need one another, and always will. But what I was trying to do is encourage each of us to learn firsthand through personal study. Know what I mean?

[Scarletprayers]

Kabowd, I do remember that topic as well as others along the same vein, I was enjoying them and your correct, they went down in flames quickly and usually because of the same people coming in and shooting them down. I am kinda hopeing this one will turn out better, so far so good!