Spiritual Language (Tongues)

[Vickilynn]

Many are the opinions expressed on the subject of speaking in tongues in this thread and virtually all of them reflect the denominational views of the posters. This is not necessarily a bad thing but it just proves that most of the theological training of the average Christian comes from the beliefs that are held by whichever denominational fold that believer is currently in. This is not what our Heavenly Father wants, for He wishes us to examine the Scriptures ourselves to see if what we are being taught is correct. And then when we do search the scriptures, it is always through the lens that our denomination has provided, for they can't be wrong. Hence, we perpetuate our denomination's viewpoint by quoting all Scripture that seems to support our belief while ignoring all Scripture that seems to contradict our beliefs formed around our denominational viewpoint. When we should be like the Berean Christians, diligently searching the Scriptures to see if what Paul taught actually lined up with Scripture, we are like sheep following the leadership and viewpoint of our various denominations.

My own experience with the question of tongues is a case in point. I found Jesus in a Southern Baptist church and what I heard in that church did not sound at all like what I had learned as a catechized Lutheran. Of course, I was a lost soul when I was learning doctrine as a child and as a teenager, so much of what I learned made no real sense to me during my Lutheran years. So, after I had accepted Jesus, I made the Southern Baptist denomination my denomination and I accepted their doctrine as the correct doctrine. So when they said that tongues passed away after the first century, I accepted it at face value, for more learned men than I had undoubtedly found this to be an accurate Scriptural stance. I took their word for it instead of searching the Scriptures myself. I was called into the ministry just months after I had accepted Jesus as my Savior and went on to a Southern Baptist college to earn my B.A. in Psychology. I was deeply steeped in the denominational viewpoint of the Southern Baptist denomination. Many was the sermon I preached and many was the class I taught against the viability of the unknown tongue in today's society in the 24 years I was an active Southern Baptist.

Then, in September, 1983 I had an experience unlike any I had ever had before. I knew that when I accepted Jesus as my Savior, the Holy Spirit's presence in my life was a given. He had helped me over too many rough spots and had empowered too many sermons for me ever to believe that He wasn't in my life. I knew the Holy Spirit was with me, not from the teachings in Scripture, but because I had seen first hand how He had helped me time after time since that day (Oct 19, 1959) when I had accepted Jesus as my Savior. But in September, 1983, I had reached the lowest point, physically, mentally, and spiritually, that I had ever experienced in my life. I was, litterally, in the pits.

Thats when, there in my study, I told God that if this was all the Christian life offered, I wasn't sure I wanted it any more. His word promised me life and that more abundantly. If what I was experiencing was the abundant life, I'd just as soon go back to my lost state where I was better off, financially and physically. That's when my Heavenly Father quietly informed me that I had not experienced all He has for me. So I said that I wanted all He could give me. Facing God and telling Him that you are totally unhappy in His life for you does not put your mind in a calm state. Mentally and spiritually, I was a basket case, becoming more unglued by the second.

When I asked my Heavenly Father to give me that which I lacked, He did. Immediately, I felt His love begin to flow over and through me, from the top of my head right down to my toes where the love and peace I was experiencing just naturally flowed out. I began to praise my Heavenly Father in my chair right there in my study for all the turmoil I had been in was gone and a peace that I had felt only once before descended over me like a blanket of pure love. While praising my Heavenly Father, I began to speak in a language I had never studied nor had ever heard. This praise in a language totally foreign to me seemed to be quite the natural response to what my Heavenly Father had done, so I continued praising in this language and it seemed to be the proper thing to do. Not having any background in understanding the Bapism of the Holy Spirit or the phenomenon of speaking in tongues, I could not connect the dots and understand that this was what I was experiencing. When my Heavenly Father poured out the Holy Spirit on me in a way that I could not deny, there was just me and Him in my study. No one laid their hands on me, no one moved my jaw to start the flow of words that would indicate that I had received the gift of tongues. It was just my Heavenly Father and me in that study and He did everything necessary for me to receive the Holy Spirit in abundance on that day I was willing to throw out the salvation that Jesus had given me on Oct 19, 1959.

My Father knows me better than I do. He knew that if He had directed me to a church where the pastor could help me as He was helping me, I would not have gone. Immediate action was called for to prevent me from throwing away the only thing of any value in my life, the gift of Savlvation that Jesus had given me. My Father also knew that with the help of a pastor would come the denominational baggage this pastor would be toting around. For this to be a unique experience I could go back to at any time to understand just what the baptism of the Holy Spirit is all about, my Heavenly Father knew that He had to provide the experience for me so that it would not be tainted by any religious trappings as my former view had been. My experience with the Baptism of the Holy Spirit proved to me that not only is it a very real experience, but it in no way replaces the presence of the Holy Spirit in my life prior to the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. This baptism rather augments the prior role the Holy Spirit played in my life, providing a complete experience to the partial experience I received the moment I accepted Jesus as my Savior. My Heavenly Father wishes that all those who accept His Son as their Savior also accept the total presence of the Holy Spirit in their lives as well. Unfortunately, denominational doctrines and religious trappings prevent this from occurring so many times that a partial experience with the Holy Spirit at the moment they are born into the family of God must suffice for the average Christian, as it did for me from 1959 to 1983.

For me, the experience of being baptized in the Holy Spirit with the immediate receiving of the gift of tongues is no longer a subject that is to be debated. I have been on both sides of this debate and what happened in my study in September, 1983 I cannot deny nor debate. I was there, it happened to me, therefore any argument that tries to say that what I said happened to me in my study cannot be true for this reason or that will fall on deaf ears. I was there, I know what happened to me and I know that this one singular event in my life completely changed my viewpoint on both the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and the gift of speaking in an unknown tongue. Believe me, it takes a profound experience to totally change a belief stubbornly held on to for 24 years. I had just such a profound experience in my study when it was only my Heavenly Father and me that were in that room.

Shalom,

What an awesome testimony!! Thank you for sharing it! G-d is SO good!

[Vickilynn]

Shalom,

As others have said, it is a personal thing between you and G-d and it doesn't happen the same way with each person. For example, my husband's experience with speaking in tongues happened much like Phil2:12's. where the my hubby was speaking in tongues and praying and laughing and crying and praising G-d and had never seen it happen, so he didn't know what it was and went over to the Pastor's home to ask him. The pastor opened the door and there was my hubby, praising G-d in his mind but what was coming out of his mouth was tongues! He spent hours there just praising G-d in his prayer language.

Now, for me, the analytical one, it was a slow process, and one of faith and surrender. I did not speak in tongues immediately because I was afraid of it! Once I surrendered myself to G-d and allowed myself to speak what I had been holding back, I knew it was tongues. It was like a small trickle at first and then the stream grew and grew into a flow!

[Phil.2:12]

I am also non-denominational. I just believe in all that the bible says. Anyway, your testimony sounded great. Really, it did. But how am I supposed to believe based on an experience in which you claim you had. My problem is that I dont see this private prayer language biblically. Everything needs to be based upon what the scriptures say. The bible talks about how the heart is wicked and will decieve you and that the only person who knows the hearts of men is God. So obviously an experience will not prove something to me unless it goes along with the scripture. I understand your view on things though but you understand how it would be hard for me to accept what your saying.

And let me clarify that I understand the day of pentecost was a one time thing. That is what I was trying to say. Nothing like this ever happened again but during that time everyone and it does say all of the people there recieved the gift of tongues but the way the holy spirit came upon us obviously changed.

In conclusion, I just want to see some biblical evidence. Show me how you can say you have this prayer language and that the gifts of the holy spirit are still being distributed through evidence in the Bible. Not from personal experiences. And I will try my hardest to not be biased towards whatever you might show me. Thank you. Your brother in Christ, matthew

I would very much like to give you the Scripture that opened my eyes to this most unusual phenomenon called "speaking in tongues". Most of the heavy lifting is found in the 14th chapter of 1 Corinthians mainly because the Corinthian church had a great deal of trouble with the spiritual gifts. Paul wrote 1 Corinthians to straighten out many problems within the church such as a man having an affair with his step-mom and the church being proud of the fact that they not only toleraterd this behavior, but boasted of it to prove just how tolerant they were of fellow church members.

The best place to start is 1 Corinthians 14:2, 4, 14, 18-19 (showing that tongues is not designed to bring instruction in corporate worship) and verse 21 (the OT basis for tongues - Isaiah 28:11). A careful study of the 14th chapter of 1 Corinthians will show that the unknown tongue is for the personal edification (or maturation) of a child of God, not the church as a corporate gathering of worshipping believers. Prophesy is to be used to build up the corporate body of believers when they meet for worship and instruction.The little book of Jude (just before Revelation), only one chapter long, also sheds light on the tongue question in verse 20.

So, you see, my beliefs are Scripturally based. My personal experience merely validates what the Word of God has said all along. Because of my denominational bias, I wasn't able to clearly see what Scriptures teach on the subject of the unknown tongue, which really isn't an unknown language but is instead a very viable language spoken today as it has been since before the foundations of the world were laid. It is the language of the Trinity and this is proven in the Scrikptures as well.

My experience isn't for everyone, but it was the only way God could open my blind eyes to see His glorious gifts He wanted so badly to give to me. However you slice this loaf of bread, one thing remains constant. God will always back up with the Scriptures anything He may show you during private worship. If He tells you something in private, as He did to me that September day in 1983, He will always show you in His word what He told you in private. That is, if you are willing to let the Holy Spirit teach you instead of relying on others to teach you. No one reading what happened to me should take my words at face value, they should instead search the scriptures to see if what I said lines up with what Scripture teaches. I applaud your stand in not accepting what happened to me without Scriptural support. But, please let the Holy Spirit guide you in your Scriptual research, for only then will it be truly accurate.

[Floatingaxe]

Loved that, Phil!

FYI: I am non-denominational.

I am also non-denominational. I just believe in all that the bible says. Anyway, your testimony sounded great. Really, it did. But how am I supposed to believe based on an experience in which you claim you had. My problem is that I dont see this private prayer language biblically. Everything needs to be based upon what the scriptures say. The bible talks about how the heart is wicked and will decieve you and that the only person who knows the hearts of men is God. So obviously an experience will not prove something to me unless it goes along with the scripture. I understand your view on things though but you understand how it would be hard for me to accept what your saying.

And let me clarify that I understand the day of pentecost was a one time thing. That is what I was trying to say. Nothing like this ever happened again but during that time everyone and it does say all of the people there recieved the gift of tongues but the way the holy spirit came upon us obviously changed.

In conclusion, I just want to see some biblical evidence. Show me how you can say you have this prayer language and that the gifts of the holy spirit are still being distributed through evidence in the Bible. Not from personal experiences. And I will try my hardest to not be biased towards whatever you might show me. Thank you. Your brother in Christ, matthew

Why don't we turn this around and you show us biblically where it tells us that the equipping of the saints for the building of the Church HAS CEASED. The Holy Spirit came at Pentecost and stayed. His job is not finished---the Church is still being built.

[Floatingaxe]

I have posted this elsewhere, but here is a second stab at it...

THE GIFT OF TONGUES AND PRAYER LANGUAGE

There is a difference between the Gift of Tongues and the Prayer Language:

The gift of tongues is a

[akilah]

[deleted]

Edited May 2, 2007 by akilah

[Floatingaxe]

There is a difference between the Gift of Tongues and the Prayer Language:

I would rather say that the gift of tongues may be used in two ways ... together with interpretation, or privately and personally talking to God. I have both used it and heard it used both ways.

Yep!

[Vickilynn]

I have posted this elsewhere, but here is a second stab at it...

Shalom,

I agree with most of this EXCEPT this:

1) Evidence of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit: Acts 2:4 / Acts 9:10-12 / Acts 17 along with 1 Cor 14:18 /

Acts 10:44-46 / Acts 19: 1-6

The Baptism of the Holy Spirit is evidenced by a changed life, not speaking in tongues.

Speaking in tongues is not REQUIRED as an evidence, but as a gift.

[Floatingaxe]

You can have a changed life without the baptism. Tongues is an evidence.

[Vickilynn]

You can have a changed life without the baptism. Tongues is an evidence.

Shalom,

You cannot have a changed life without being born again and being filled with the Holy Spirit.

Tongues is a gift, not a requirement.