Spiritual Language (Tongues)

[Floatingaxe]

it is a greatly sad thing to look around me and see so many believers in Jesus Christ are missing such a fullness in Him.

Shalom FA,

That's exactly what I said about observing the Law and you came unglued.

Hmmmmm.

What are you talking about? I do not become unglued. Please refrain from personalizing your posts, if you can.

So many Christians ARE missing the fullness of the Holy Spirit in their lives.

I believe that many Christians are looking for some supernatural "feel good" experience which has no basis or grounding in reality or truth. Anybody can get the same feeling by jumping from an airplane at 30 thou. feet. Doesn't make it real or true.

And you are meaning....? I'm feeling the love here...

The truth is, that the Holy Spirit does fill us with "joy unspeakable" and that is reality! Immaturity is seen in such believers that are seeking a spiritual high. We are not discussing such things here, however.

1 Peter 1:8

Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:

or

You love him even though you have never seen him. Though you do not see him now, you trust him; and you rejoice with a glorious, inexpressible joy.

[Ovedya]

Sorry, but what Vickilynn was espousing is false doctrine.

Not to say, however, that the baptism cannot happen at the same time or shortly after salvation, which would be a fantastic experience!

It's just that it happens to believers, so you have to have received your salvation first, chronologically.

The Holy Spirit does distribute His giftings liberally to His Church today. His work is not done. He is very busy, but apparently, from what I am reading these days, His work is pretty much cut out for Him, as there are so many doubters among the brethren, which grieves Him, I am sure. Anyone who doesn't know that, doesn't have Him.

The work of Christ is complete. The only work that is being accomplished in the church today is the dispensing of the Spirit for believer's growth in life - the building up of the Body of Christ. Nevertheless, The Spirit only operates according to the completed work of Christ in redemption.

This is not a personal attack, FA, but I have experienced you in the past as one who swings too far to one side of "Christian liberty." So it's not really too surprising that you would say that obedience to any law is false doctrine. Remember that there is plenty of false doctrine to go around on the side of those who eschew obedience to any spiritual law.

[Floatingaxe]

Sorry, but what Vickilynn was espousing is false doctrine.

Not to say, however, that the baptism cannot happen at the same time or shortly after salvation, which would be a fantastic experience!

It's just that it happens to believers, so you have to have received your salvation first, chronologically.

The Holy Spirit does distribute His giftings liberally to His Church today. His work is not done. He is very busy, but apparently, from what I am reading these days, His work is pretty much cut out for Him, as there are so many doubters among the brethren, which grieves Him, I am sure. Anyone who doesn't know that, doesn't have Him.

The work of Christ is complete. The only work that is being accomplished in the church today is the dispensing of the Spirit for believer's growth in life - the building up of the Body of Christ. Nevertheless, The Spirit only operates according to the completed work of Christ in redemption.

This is not a personal attack, FA, but I have experienced you in the past as one who swings too far to one side of "Christian liberty." So it's not really too surprising that you would say that obedience to any law is false doctrine. Remember that there is plenty of false doctrine to go around on the side of those who eschew obedience to any spiritual law.

Talk about judging! Have you got me pegged wrong! LOL Don't be so short-sighted!

Of course, I agree with you about the Holy Spirit's role in our growth, but He is very active in the building of the Church. Jesus says, "I will build My church." You aren't building it. I am not building it. Jesus, through His Holly spirit builds it...through us. Get busy, Ovedya, roll up your sleeves and join the force. Use your spiritual gifts!

I forgive you, for how could you know me?

Do not scoff at the liberty we have in Christ. He is the giver, and He is the freer. Do not mock His kids.

[Ovedya]

it is a greatly sad thing to look around me and see so many believers in Jesus Christ are missing such a fullness in Him.

Shalom FA,

That's exactly what I said about observing the Law and you came unglued.

Hmmmmm.

What are you talking about? I do not become unglued. Please refrain from personalizing your posts, if you can.

So many Christians ARE missing the fullness of the Holy Spirit in their lives.

I believe that many Christians are looking for some supernatural "feel good" experience which has no basis or grounding in reality or truth. Anybody can get the same feeling by jumping from an airplane at 30 thou. feet. Doesn't make it real or true.

And you are meaning....? I'm feeling the love here...

The truth is, that the Holy Spirit does fill us with "joy unspeakable" and that is reality! Immaturity is seen in such believers that are seeking a spiritual high. We are not discussing such things here, however.

1 Peter 1:8

Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:

or

You love him even though you have never seen him. Though you do not see him now, you trust him; and you rejoice with a glorious, inexpressible joy.

I'm not talking about the joy that is expressed through loving Christ. I am talking about those supernatural experiences such as the manifestations of tongues, falling over as though dead, and even swaying back and forth moaning like an animal, laughing uncontrollably or barking like a dog. These are not genuine manifestations of the Spirit of Life.

[Vickilynn]

Shalom, FA and E-Gal,

Be very careful what you call "false doctrine".

The Scriptures say we are infilled with the Holy Spirit when we are saved.

I'm going to stand up for the Scriptures and reject man's opinions.

No, it doesn't say that we are baptized with Holy Spirit fire at salvation. You can dance all around it all you want, but the baptism is the work of the Holy Spirit for believers, those who have already received salvation.

Shalom FA,

Oh, we're discussing dancing now??

Sorry, the Scriptures say that we are filled with the Holy Spirit when we are saved. Period. This is the truth from the Scriptures.

[Ovedya]

Sorry, but what Vickilynn was espousing is false doctrine.

Not to say, however, that the baptism cannot happen at the same time or shortly after salvation, which would be a fantastic experience!

It's just that it happens to believers, so you have to have received your salvation first, chronologically.

The Holy Spirit does distribute His giftings liberally to His Church today. His work is not done. He is very busy, but apparently, from what I am reading these days, His work is pretty much cut out for Him, as there are so many doubters among the brethren, which grieves Him, I am sure. Anyone who doesn't know that, doesn't have Him.

The work of Christ is complete. The only work that is being accomplished in the church today is the dispensing of the Spirit for believer's growth in life - the building up of the Body of Christ. Nevertheless, The Spirit only operates according to the completed work of Christ in redemption.

This is not a personal attack, FA, but I have experienced you in the past as one who swings too far to one side of "Christian liberty." So it's not really too surprising that you would say that obedience to any law is false doctrine. Remember that there is plenty of false doctrine to go around on the side of those who eschew obedience to any spiritual law.

Talk about judging! Have you got me pegged wrong! LOL Don't be so short-sighted!

I forgive you, for how could you know me?

As I wrote, I was speaking of my experience of you here on these boards; based on our past discussions. Judgment? No. Only my personal experience.

[Floatingaxe]

I'm not talking about the joy that is expressed through loving Christ. I am talking about those supernatural experiences such as the manifestations of tongues, falling over as though dead, and even swaying back and forth moaning like an animal, laughing uncontrollably or barking like a dog. These are not genuine manifestations of the Spirit of Life.

Oh! Are we discussing all these manifestations?

[Ovedya]

I'm not talking about the joy that is expressed through loving Christ. I am talking about those supernatural experiences such as the manifestations of tongues, falling over as though dead, and even swaying back and forth moaning like an animal, laughing uncontrollably or barking like a dog. These are not genuine manifestations of the Spirit of Life.

Oh! Are we discussing all these manifestations?

If you would like, sure.

[Floatingaxe]

Shalom, FA and E-Gal,

Be very careful what you call "false doctrine".

The Scriptures say we are infilled with the Holy Spirit when we are saved.

I'm going to stand up for the Scriptures and reject man's opinions.

No, it doesn't say that we are baptized with Holy Spirit fire at salvation. You can dance all around it all you want, but the baptism is the work of the Holy Spirit for believers, those who have already received salvation.

Shalom FA,

Oh, we're discussing dancing now??

Sorry, the Scriptures say that we are filled with the Holy Spirit when we are saved. Period. This is the truth from the Scriptures.

No.

[Ovedya]

Hi again all,

I agree with what Floatingaxe has said on this subject and add the following:

Consider that this part of scripture (Acts 19) that speaks of the believers who had not been baptised into Jesus or received the Holy Ghost is a perfect scripture to hightlight the problem we have in the church general and even on this board. Consider that it is God Who is drawing our attention to these verses in order that no one here need be ignorant any longer of basic Gospel requirements, and the necessity of receiving the Holy Spirit.

Paul's concern for the believers that he encountered was apostolic. He made sure that they went no further in their ignorance and powerlessness by confirming the Gospel importance of their repentance and faith, instructing them to be baptized into Jesus Christ, and then laying hands on them for the Holy Spirit.

Paul was direct and to the point about the Gospel requirements which are still the same today. The order is also still the same.

There is no receiving of the Holy Spirit without conversion.

The baptism of the Holy Spirit comes through the laying on of hands by those with spiritual authority. It can also come directly from God without any laying on of hands provided the Gospel requirements are all in place. It can come at any time subsequent to conversion, accompanied by gifts and signs following including the gift of tongues but not always.

There is a difference between theological knowledge and Spiritual authority. If you don't know the difference, better find out.

Love, EphesiansGal

All believers who have believed into the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ have received the Spirit. There is no separate experience required. Once a believer has the Spirit, he has the Spirit! Acts 19 does not evidence that believers have two separate experiences of the Holy Spirit.

You can get saved and then you are given the Holy Spirit. You can paddle around in the spiritually shallow waters all your life and never have the baptism, but why would you want to? It is there for the asking and waiting on your faith to receive. There is a difference between receiving the Holy Spirit and being baptised in the Holy Spirit, as many have testified on here. Perhaps you would like to explain why you are so determined to call us all liars by implication?

First, please be careful about what you accuse me of. If I want to call someone a liar I will do so, and will not use any implicative language.

Second, "You can get saved and then you are given the Holy Spirit" contradicts your later statement that, "There is a difference between receiving the Holy Spirit and being baptised in the Holy Spirit."

All who are saved are so because the Holy Spirit (Actually, the Triune God) has come to indwell them: John 14:15-24; 17:23; Rom. 8:9; 2 Cor. 13:5; Col.1:27. There is no essential need or requirement for salvation that the Spirit come once again to indwell a believer for a particular manifestation or spiritual experience. All believers can access the benefits of the Body of Christ mutually and for the benefit of its building. Read Ephesians 4:16 and 1 Cor. 14 respectively.