Spiritual Language (Tongues)

[matthew4:4]

In any case, there is a way to perceive those who are truly filled with the Holy Spirit.

Galatians 5: 22-26

In contrast, the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness,

gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.

Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified their flesh with its passions and desires.

If we live in the Spirit, let us also follow the Spirit.

Let us not be conceited, provoking one another, envious of one another.

and again

I Corinthians 13: 1-6

If I speak in human and angelic tongues but do not have love, I am a resounding gong or a clashing cymbal.

And if I have the gift of prophecy and comprehend all mysteries and all knowledge; if I have all faith so as to move mountains but do not have love, I am nothing.

If I give away everything I own, and if I hand my body over so that I may boast but do not have love, I gain nothing.

Love is patient, love is kind. It is not jealous, love is not pompous, it is not inflated,

it is not rude, it does not seek its own interests, it is not quick-tempered, it does not brood over injury,

it does not rejoice over wrongdoing but rejoices with the truth.

Peace,

Fiosh

Thank you for saying this. This is exactly what I said much eariler in the conversation. I know I have the holy spirit because of the amazing change that has occured in my life. The joy, love, kindness and so on that has been given to me. I am so grateful of it. God has truly done too much for me. If he wants me to have a gift of the spirit so be it. If not, I am extremly happy the way I am. I will only strive to do my best to show God that I am worthy of his love even though I dont think I am. Anyway, Im going to sleep but I will be keeping you guys in my prayers. God bless. Your brother in Christ, matthew

[matthew4:4]

Hi Matthew,

The next verse to the one you quoted is this:

"39 The promise (of the Holy Spirit) is for you and your children and for all who are far off--for all whom the Lord our God will call."

Do you believe God has stopped calling people as well? You can't change the scriptures to suit your pet beliefs. The meaning is quite clear. All means all.

Love, EphesiansGal

Its not a false doctrine. It is the truth. Look...

Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and they asked Peter and the other apostles, "What are we to do, my brothers?"

38

Peter (said) to them, "Repent and be baptized, 7 every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the holy Spirit.

Its just that simple. Are you going to say that Peter forgot to say that later they would then recieve a "baptism of the spirit". Its very simple. I lack no such gifts. God blesses me daily with spiritual things. He fills me with peace and makes me happy. He gives me the words to speak to others about Christ. He helps me cope with difficult situations. Most imporatantly, he lead me away from drugs. Thats more than I could ever ask for. I am completly in his will. If he wanted me to have gifts he would give them to me. But hes not giving the gifts today. The signs and wonders will happen in the end of times probably after the rapture or esle we would know when it will be. There are no signs and wonders happening today. Nothing nearly as extravagant. And as far as tongues goes, u do know that there are many non-christian relgions that practice tongues as well right? glossalia or whatever its called is either demon induced or its psychological. How could you call that type of tongues a gift of the spirit when even some buddhists use it. Look, I'm not trying to diminish the power of the Holy Spirit in any way but hes just not distributing the gifts today. I've been to pentecostal type groups and all of it can be explained away as psychological. Plus, it in no way seems like what was talked about in the new testament. In conclusion, the gifts were just a way to verify that everything the disciples and Jesus were saying was truly the word of God but now, are no longer needed. God bless. Your brother in Christ, matthew

Yes, I have read that part. The Holy Spirit is for everyone. I'm not changing scripture. Listen, Im talking about the gifts. I have the Holy Spirit within me. Every single believer in Christ does. Look at the verse that says if the spirit is not within you then God does not know you. I feel the Holy Spirit. I listen to it daily.

And please floating axe. When you are going to try to debate something I say, come back with some sort of example or verse for your opinion. All you ever seem to say is this is how it is. Too bad for you. Ephesians girl atleast pulled a verse and then I came back with my own opinion on it. We're humans so each one of us is probably wrong in one thing or another. And you cant say that what vicklyn is saying is false doctrine. Many Christians believe that way. See, Acts is a transitional book. It was bringing about changes. The Spirit came in that way but I believe its clear in Romans(the following book or later on) that it was then something that came with salvation because before people didnt even know what the Holy Spirit was. Anyway, please respond with some evidence or examples of your point or else theres not much point to this thread. Does this make sense to anyone else? Let me know. Thanks. Your brother in Christ, matthew

Dear me, Matthew. Let's not start calling God the Holy Spirit an "it" shall we. Try to learn something, it will help you, and you do need to progress from the point you are at.

Much love from EphesiansGal

Lol, ok my mistake. I didnt mean to say it. It was just an accident. Also, I'm always trying to learn stuff about our Lord because it is a continual learning experience. Even in a lifetime we wouldnt be able to know everything that the Bible holds for us. It is so vast and perfect. It gives us everything we need in life for every situation. But I am learning stuff constantly. At church, at home, and my girlfriend and I have private discipleship classes. I don't believe the gifts exist today through my research and studying. Just because I don't believe in them doesnt make me any less spiritual than any of you. Let's continue to discuss the issue at hand. Thanks. Your brother in Christ, matthew

[Vickilynn]

Dear me, Matthew. Let's not start calling God the Holy Spirit an "it" shall we. Try to learn something, it will help you, and you do need to progress from the point you are at.

Much love from EphesiansGal

'

Shalom Matthew,

Do not be concerned, this is not a biggie. The Holy Spirit is big enough to understand that you were referring to Him when you spoke of Him. He is not offended since He knows your heart, and so Christians need not fight this non-battle for Him. IT's just another way for some Christians to act superior.

As for the rest of her statement, it is arrogant and non-applicable. G-d will "progress" you as you grow in Him. It is not E-Gals or any other person's job to be your Holy Spirit. You are filled with the Holy Spirit and have no fear, He will lead you and grow you and progress you according to YOUR heart, which no one on this board knows, but G-d.

[Scarletprayers]

Dear me, Matthew. Let's not start calling God the Holy Spirit an "it" shall we. Try to learn something, it will help you, and you do need to progress from the point you are at.

Much love from EphesiansGal

'

Shalom Matthew,

Do not be concerned, this is not a biggie. The Holy Spirit is big enough to understand that you were referring to Him when you spoke of Him. He is not offended since He knows your heart, and so Christians need not fight this non-battle for Him. IT's just another way for some Christians to act superior.

As for the rest of her statement, it is arrogant and non-applicable. G-d will "progress" you as you grow in Him. It is not E-Gals or any other person's job to be your Holy Spirit. You are filled with the Holy Spirit and have no fear, He will lead you and grow you and progress you according to YOUR heart, which no one on this board knows, but G-d.

So far, his understanding IMHO, has surpassed those arguing against him.

[Vickilynn]

So far, his understanding IMHO, has surpassed those arguing against him.

Shalom SilentPrayer,

I agree!

[Scarletprayers]

Talk about legalism, either you agree with me, or your immature. Just as many if not more believers disagree with "2nd baptism" idea you are promoting here.

[Vickilynn]

Vickilynn, I perceive Matthew has an honest desire to progress. It is good that he acknowledged it was wrong to refer to God the Holy Spirit as "it". This is wonderful.

Shalom Egal,

Calling the Holy Spirit "it" instead of "He" is not a big deal. It's straining at gnats and swallowing camels.

The Holy Spirit is G-d and doesn't need you jumping on people for silly things like this. The Holy Spirit can read hearts, unlike you.

As for Matthew's desire "to progress", you are in error to tell him how to do that. G-d is the one to lead him and guide him in any way that he needs. Your "perception" is not relevant here, only the Scriptures are.

You on the other hand are obviously trying to sow disunity, and to undo what good things are actually being achieved here. You are not thinking of anyone else's spiritual wellbeing, but selfishly trying to grind your own axe and gather a few people around you who will agree, in order to oppose the flow of teaching and make yourself look like you have some authority, by default.

What are you talking about. You sound like a 2-year who had her balloon popped!

And you are doing exactly what you accuse me of. It's rather funny actually.

Legalism is like death to the liberty that is in Christ. There are innumerable warnings in scripture against it, which you would do well to heed.

Oh, so now your MY Holy Spirit. I think not. You think too highly of yourself dear.

And so, since you assert that you have the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and that somehow makes you more mature or whatever, pray tell, why then are you so nasty and hateful in your dealing with people who hold different Scriptural views?? Is THIS what it means to be baptized in the Holy Spirit? Heaven forbid!! I think you need a new filling my dear, you've seem to run out.

Where is the evidence that you have walked in anything but your flesh?

Where is the love? Where is the gentleness, humbleness, submission, peacemaking. Where is the fruit of the Spirit?

WHERE IS THE LOVE???

You can speak in tongues all you want, but if you do not have love, you are nothing but a noisy gong and clanging cymbal.

Think about that. The people reading are checking out your responses in light of the Scriptures.

You should read this, it might help you progress in your walk:

1 Corinthians 13

The Way of Love

1If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned,[a] but have not love, I gain nothing.

4Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant 5or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; 6it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. 7Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

8Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. 11When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. 12For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.

13So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

[Ovedya]

Vickilynn, I perceive Matthew has an honest desire to progress. It is good that he acknowledged it was wrong to refer to God the Holy Spirit as "it". This is wonderful.

You on the other hand are obviously trying to sow disunity, and to undo what good things are actually being achieved here. You are not thinking of anyone else's spiritual wellbeing, but selfishly trying to grind your own axe and gather a few people around you who will agree, in order to oppose the flow of teaching and make yourself look like you have some authority, by default.

Legalism is like death to the liberty that is in Christ. There are innumerable warnings in scripture against it, which you would do well to heed.

Now then, your behaviour makes clear to us EXACTLY why it is wrong to affirm that the baptism with the Holy Spirit is automatic at conversion. It is an open door to all kinds of ungodly activity, as though you feel in your ignorance that you have some God-given right to stand above those who have clearly experienced something that you know nothing about.

Fortunately for you, and for all of us, the only way to progress in the Lord is through repentance, as Matthew already understands. If you would only seek the baptism for yourself, many things would come clear to you, and your immaturity would not be so obvious to all who can see what you are up to.

Regards

EphesiansGal

Dear me, Matthew. Let's not start calling God the Holy Spirit an "it" shall we. Try to learn something, it will help you, and you do need to progress from the point you are at.

Much love from EphesiansGal

'

Shalom Matthew,

Do not be concerned, this is not a biggie. The Holy Spirit is big enough to understand that you were referring to Him when you spoke of Him. He is not offended since He knows your heart, and so Christians need not fight this non-battle for Him. IT's just another way for some Christians to act superior.

As for the rest of her statement, it is arrogant and non-applicable. G-d will "progress" you as you grow in Him. It is not E-Gals or any other person's job to be your Holy Spirit. You are filled with the Holy Spirit and have no fear, He will lead you and grow you and progress you according to YOUR heart, which no one on this board knows, but G-d.

The discord which you claim that others are sowing here is actually sown with what this post accuses. My observations of your replies thus far are that you have a tendency to accuse and belittle when your argument becomes weak. The clear implication here is that those that have not received a second baptism as you apparently have, are "shallow" in the faith and lacking a depth of understanding in the Scriptures. Yet it is a decided lacking of evidence from the Scriptures in your argument that makes your implication a contradiction.

[Vickilynn]

Their disagreement by no means makes it correct:

Shalom E-gal,

You have not proven by Scripture that a SECOND baptism of the Holy Spirit is what is needed.

Your posts make statements that are not Scriptural and in fact, are false doctrine for your state that having a second baptism of the Holy Spirit is "essential."

No, it's not.

How dare you call the things of G-d heresy because it doesn't fit YOUR doctrine!

You are the one "spitting on Jesus" because you are saying what He did on the Cross is not good enough! How dare you!

The Holy Spirit is given IN HIS FULLNESS when we are born-again. As the Believer walks with Jesus and submits himself/herself to the leading of the Holy Spirit and the Word, we become more mature and more like Jesus. We are filled with all the power we need when we are born-again, it only takes us walking in it.

There are cults out there that demand people be baptized in the Holy Spirit and speak in tongues or they question their salvation experience. You are saying something similar in that someone who doesn't do it YOUR way is somehow less of a Christian.

I rebuke and reject that spirit for it does not come from G-d! It comes from man's pride.

We are ALL equal at the foot of the Cross and there are no "less" Christians in G-d's eyes!

And again, since you are the poster-child for all things Holy Spirit, why do we not see more of Him and less of these fleshly tirades? If you are exhibiting the "power" and "maturity", I would say that other posters seemto have a better handle, even without the "second baptism". Please think about that and how you come across in your zeal to covert everyone to your way of thinking.

[Ovedya]

Their disagreement by no means makes it correct:

13 "Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the road is easy that leads to destruction, and there are many who take it. 14 For the gate is narrow and the road is hard that leads to life, and there are few who find it."

Like it or not, there is immaturity in the body, and there are those who are mature enough to teach.

It is not only me who has given testimony of the baptism with the Holy Spirit on here. Others have no doubt done a much better job. But I do take offense that those who have not experienced it would presume to criticise and undermine the efforts of those of us who are honestly trying to help others to a richer experience in the Lord. Such things are essential in these days of uncertainty. We do not know what disasters may befall us. We need to have a faith that can endure to the end so that we will not be cast away. The baptism with the Holy Spirit is soundly biblical, and is sent by a supremely loving and caring God to His people, to increase that faith, and to help them endure hardship, and live like spiritual people, making a difference to the lives of others.

Can you not see, there is MUCH at stake by refusing such a wonderful thing from the hand of God? Is it not enough for you to see we are pleading with you, on the grounds of our experience, about which we do not lie, to consider that what we are saying is true? The baptism with the Holy Ghost is real, powerful, life-changing. It is clearly not automatic at conversion, or more newly converted people could report it had happened to them. They rarely do. The ones on here who say the gifts died out could not say that if they had experienced what we have experienced. Those who say it is automatic at conversion write off millions of genuine Christians who have not yet received the blessing, as though they are unconverted.

When the baptism comes to us, it is no more "business as usual" in the church. We need it desperately as a body. To teach that it is even debateable to me is heresy, so important is it that we know the reality of this blessing.

Love, EphesiansGal

Talk about legalism, either you agree with me, or your immature. Just as many if not more believers disagree with "2nd baptism" idea you are promoting here.

What believers need most desperately today is the most basic sound biblical teaching, and affirmation of church orthodoxy.

Consider the fact that, according to recent surveys, nearly 40% of all those who are professed Christians do not believe that Satan is a real being. More cannot cite the ten commandments, and still more cannot name all the books of the New Testament. There is a serious, serious lack of plain knowledge of the Bible and understanding of orthodoxy in America. No amount of spiritual experience is going to bring believers into the full maturity that is needed from a solid foundation of Biblical knowledge. What the Body most desperately needs is Biblical understanding.

Consider the following USA Today article, and you'll see what I'm talking about: http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2007...ion-cover_N.htm