Spiritual Language (Tongues)

[Kabowd]

I don't feel "slighted" in the slightest. However, Paul even instructed us to seek after the gifts. I forget exactly where it's found but it's in there I assure you. Also, consider Solomon. He did not have the gift of wisdom prior to his asking for it. When he did, he was not reprimanded. In fact, God saw his heart and knew that Solomon desired to do good with the gift he sought after (Don't write back and question my motives either. That is a job for God Himself, for only He knows the heart of any given individual). The gift of tongues allows us to commune with the Spirit in a way we wouldn't have before. I don't pretend to have a thorough understanding of tongues. However, I do know that a universal indication that someone has been baptized in the Holy Spirit is the evidence of speaking in tongues. Being baptized in the Holy Spirit (or being anointed by the Holy Spirit) further equips us with power for His service. Yes, I am aware that not everyone agrees with me on this and I'm not going to print scripture for scripture here to justify my belief. I'm well aware that not everyone has the same gifts as his neighbor. I also know that much more is available to us if we would simply ask in faith, believing.

You state things here which cannot be substantiated with Scripture (properly anyway). And yet, you also seem unwilling to hear any correction or differing opinions. Why would you not be open to hearing what other people believe? And why would you be unwilling to defend what you believe with Scripture?

While I would agree that no one has the authority to question your motives, I would argue that as fellow believers we do have the obligation to hold one another accountable for our practices.

[methinkshe]

A spiritual language is something I've prayed for in the past but never experienced. Anyone care to describe what it was like when you first spoke in tongues?

Yes, I'd like to describe it - mainly because I have just begun to re-use the gift of tongues after 25 yrs of putting it on hold. To start at the beginning....

I received the gift of tongues when, following acceptance of Jesus as Saviour, I prayed in front of my mother for my two year old daughter. I kind of knew what I wanted to pray but halfway through the Spirit took over and I found myself praying in tongues. After that I prayed frequently in tongues - in 2 different languages, as well, or so it sounded to me. I could (and still can) switch between them at will. However, about 5 years down the road I began to feel uncomfortable and wonder whether I was just kidding myself. So my praying and speaking in tongues just fizzled away. Needless to say, it was a time when I was not attending any Christian Fellowship or church. But recently I have started again - and it is exactly as though I had never stopped. I have an emotional sense of what I am saying but I do not know in my mind exactly what it is. I know when I am praising, intercessing, confessing, for instance, but I cannot literally translate the words. For me, speaking/praying in tongues is like bypassing the inevitable ignorance of a mind stuck in time and ignorance, and communicating in the Spirit in a way that transcends time and the limitations of my mind and knowledge. I know if I pray in tongues for a person that I will be praying for what that person REALLY needs and not what I may think they need. For that reason, praying in tongues was, and still is, a blessed relief inasmuch as one has an inner assurance that one is giving voice to the Holy Spirit within.

Praise Jesus,

Ruth

[Riley322]

Seek the Gift Giver, not gifts He brings.

[b]Again, I say--it's not for any one of us to judge another's heart or motives. I do believe that if we seek after His gifts instead of (or more so) than we seek Him, then we will find ourselves disappointed. As I stated in my previous posting, God searched Solomon's heart before releasing the gift he sought. Had He found impure or selfish motives I believe God would have rejected Solomon's request. I seek after Him and after His gifts because His gifts are of Him. His gifts are what He uses to glorify Himself in us. Our primary concern out to be about that--allowing God's glory to shine through in our lives-not out of selfish ambition but so that nonbelievers will witness His Light in us and come to know Him. The gifts of God are also used to edify the body. There is absolutely nothing wrong with seeking after anything that is of God as long as our motives are pure and as I've said before, that is a judgment call only God stands qualified to make.

[Riley322]

I don't feel "slighted" in the slightest. However, Paul even instructed us to seek after the gifts. I forget exactly where it's found but it's in there I assure you. Also, consider Solomon. He did not have the gift of wisdom prior to his asking for it. When he did, he was not reprimanded. In fact, God saw his heart and knew that Solomon desired to do good with the gift he sought after (Don't write back and question my motives either. That is a job for God Himself, for only He knows the heart of any given individual). The gift of tongues allows us to commune with the Spirit in a way we wouldn't have before. I don't pretend to have a thorough understanding of tongues. However, I do know that a universal indication that someone has been baptized in the Holy Spirit is the evidence of speaking in tongues. Being baptized in the Holy Spirit (or being anointed by the Holy Spirit) further equips us with power for His service. Yes, I am aware that not everyone agrees with me on this and I'm not going to print scripture for scripture here to justify my belief. I'm well aware that not everyone has the same gifts as his neighbor. I also know that much more is available to us if we would simply ask in faith, believing.

You state things here which cannot be substantiated with Scripture (properly anyway). And yet, you also seem unwilling to hear any correction or differing opinions. Why would you not be open to hearing what other people believe? And why would you be unwilling to defend what you believe with Scripture? While I would agree that no one has the authority to question your motives, I would argue that as fellow believers we do have the obligation to hold one another accountable for our practices.

Your judgment of me is incorrect and unjustified. However, I stand firm in my faith and shall not be moved. I am all for hearing the perspectives of others but will not waiver in my beliefs simply because someone else doesn't share them. The things that you state that can't be backed up with scripture (properly, as you say) very well can. Based on your response, however, your interpretation of those scriptures would likely be different than my own and presenting them here would likely prove to be a futile exercise. That's really the way it should be--we should all be standing firm in our faith. When we are wrong, the Spirit will guide us into all truth-if indeed truth is what we seek. And if we seek the truth, the truth shall set us free. Yes, I know that God sometimes uses others to teach us (or correct us if need be). When He does, my spirit bears witness with the Truth being presented.

[Riley322]

A spiritual language is something I've prayed for in the past but never experienced. Anyone care to describe what it was like when you first spoke in tongues?

Yes, I'd like to describe it - mainly because I have just begun to re-use the gift of tongues after 25 yrs of putting it on hold. To start at the beginning....

I received the gift of tongues when, following acceptance of Jesus as Saviour, I prayed in front of my mother for my two year old daughter. I kind of knew what I wanted to pray but halfway through the Spirit took over and I found myself praying in tongues. After that I prayed frequently in tongues - in 2 different languages, as well, or so it sounded to me. I could (and still can) switch between them at will. However, about 5 years down the road I began to feel uncomfortable and wonder whether I was just kidding myself. So my praying and speaking in tongues just fizzled away. Needless to say, it was a time when I was not attending any Christian Fellowship or church. But recently I have started again - and it is exactly as though I had never stopped. I have an emotional sense of what I am saying but I do not know in my mind exactly what it is. I know when I am praising, intercessing, confessing, for instance, but I cannot literally translate the words. For me, speaking/praying in tongues is like bypassing the inevitable ignorance of a mind stuck in time and ignorance, and communicating in the Spirit in a way that transcends time and the limitations of my mind and knowledge. I know if I pray in tongues for a person that I will be praying for what that person REALLY needs and not what I may think they need. For that reason, praying in tongues was, and still is, a blessed relief inasmuch as one has an inner assurance that one is giving voice to the Holy Spirit within.

Praise Jesus,

Ruth

Thanks so much Ruth, for your testimony!

Blessings!

Riley

[Floatingaxe]

A spiritual language is something I've prayed for in the past but never experienced. Anyone care to describe what it was like when you first spoke in tongues?

I was not attending any Christian Fellowship or church. But recently I have started again - and it is exactly as though I had never stopped. I have an emotional sense of what I am saying but I do not know in my mind exactly what it is. I know when I am praising, intercessing, confessing, for instance, but I cannot literally translate the words. For me, speaking/praying in tongues is like bypassing the inevitable ignorance of a mind stuck in time and ignorance, and communicating in the Spirit in a way that transcends time and the limitations of my mind and knowledge. I know if I pray in tongues for a person that I will be praying for what that person REALLY needs and not what I may think they need. For that reason, praying in tongues was, and still is, a blessed relief inasmuch as one has an inner assurance that one is giving voice to the Holy Spirit within.

Praise Jesus,

Ruth

This is against what Christ himself taught about prayer.

Matthew 6

7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

Praying in tongues is not necessary to get the message through of what you REALLY need. v. 8 says the Father already knows.

v. 9-13 shows the proper way in which we are supposed to pray.

9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

11 Give us this day our daily bread.

12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

There is a noticable lack of scripture from those who support tongues....though there are refences to the "emotional experience."

There is plenty of scripture on it. There is nothing wrong with the backing of experience. That is what our lives in Christ are all about! We experience Jesus! He loves to live through us and bless us with His fullness and His power for living! He works in us and through us to perform His will, and His wondrous acts. We are King's Kids, and we can do nothing without Him, and we do all through Him!

Tongues is a mere drop in the bucket compared to all the wondrous power He gifts us with!

[Riley322]

A spiritual language is something I've prayed for in the past but never experienced. Anyone care to describe what it was like when you first spoke in tongues?

I was not attending any Christian Fellowship or church. But recently I have started again - and it is exactly as though I had never stopped. I have an emotional sense of what I am saying but I do not know in my mind exactly what it is. I know when I am praising, intercessing, confessing, for instance, but I cannot literally translate the words. For me, speaking/praying in tongues is like bypassing the inevitable ignorance of a mind stuck in time and ignorance, and communicating in the Spirit in a way that transcends time and the limitations of my mind and knowledge. I know if I pray in tongues for a person that I will be praying for what that person REALLY needs and not what I may think they need. For that reason, praying in tongues was, and still is, a blessed relief inasmuch as one has an inner assurance that one is giving voice to the Holy Spirit within.

Praise Jesus,

Ruth

This is against what Christ himself taught about prayer.

Matthew 6

7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

Praying in tongues is not necessary to get the message through of what you REALLY need. v. 8 says the Father already knows.

v. 9-13 shows the proper way in which we are supposed to pray.

9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

11 Give us this day our daily bread.

12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

There is a noticable lack of scripture from those who support tongues....though there are refences to the "emotional experience."

There is plenty of scripture on it. There is nothing wrong with the backing of experience. That is what our lives in Christ are all about! We experience Jesus! He loves to live through us and bless us with His fullness and His power for living! He works in us and through us to perform His will, and His wondrous acts. We are King's Kids, and we can do nothing without Him, and we do all through Him!

Tongues is a mere drop in the bucket compared to all the wondrous power He gifts us with!

Amen!

[exrockstar]

There is plenty of scripture on it. There is nothing wrong with the backing of experience. That is what our lives in Christ are all about! We experience Jesus!

that's what people are sold on nowadays....the experience.

nevermind a baby being born, life, water flowing, us breathing, gravity, love...God isn't in that, huh?

God now comes in "an experience."

Totally co-sign with Arthur.

[Kabowd]

Again, I say--it's not for any one of us to judge another's heart or motives. I do believe that if we seek after His gifts instead of (or more so) than we seek Him, then we will find ourselves disappointed. As I stated in my previous posting, God searched Solomon's heart before releasing the gift he sought. Had He found impure or selfish motives I believe God would have rejected Solomon's request. I seek after Him and after His gifts because His gifts are of Him. His gifts are what He uses to glorify Himself in us. Our primary concern out to be about that--allowing God's glory to shine through in our lives-not out of selfish ambition but so that nonbelievers will witness His Light in us and come to know Him. The gifts of God are also used to edify the body. There is absolutely nothing wrong with seeking after anything that is of God as long as our motives are pure and as I've said before, that is a judgment call only God stands qualified to make.

First of all, I already agreed with you that God alone has the authority to judge motives. Nowhere have I attempted to do so. Therefore it is a strawman (and irrelevant) to argue this point. Secondly, it isn't accurate to make a comparison between "the gift of tongues" and "wisdom". Here's a few reasons why:

1. Wisdom/knowledge is a virtue that we are all told to pursue. (too many verses to list)

2. Tongues is a gift that is only given to some. (1 Cor. 12:10, 30)

3. We are never told to seek tongues.

4. We are told that tongues (and other "gifts of the Spirit") are not as important as faith, hope and love ("fruits of the Spirit"). (1 Corinthians 13)

5. We are repeatedly warned not to seek anything (not even wisdom or necessities) as fervently as we seek Him and His Kingdom. (Prov. 1:7; Matt. 6:33).

6. Nothing God created is co-equal with God, and is therefore not worthy to receive equal focus. Even "good" things can become idols or obssessions.

Those are just a few, but in short...there is always an order. God and His glory are supreme, anything else is secondary. We must be careful not to become hedonistic. Our reward is found in the joy of knowing Him, not in the gifts He has to offer us. Our prayers should be focused on knowing and glorifying God and in seeking to let the joy of having a right relationship with Him be our reward. So many people want to quote Paul when praying to receive "gifts of the Spirit", but rarely do we hear believers quote him out of Philippians 3:10 when he says "I want to know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings". Are God's gifts good? Of course. Always. Should we appreciate them? Yes. Does this mean we should seek after them? No.

Your judgment of me is incorrect and unjustified.

How so? First of all, I didn't judge you. I pointed out that some of the things you claimed cannot be supported in Scripture. You need not take this personally.

The things that you state that can't be backed up with scripture (properly, as you say) very well can.

Okay, then can you provide them? Specifically, I'd like to see the verses which state that the gift of tongues enables us to communicate with God in a way we would not otherwise be able to. And any Scriptures where we are told to seek after gifts from God. Verses which tell us to "ask" and/or verses pertaining to virtues do not apply.

Based on your response, however, your interpretation of those scriptures would likely be different than my own and presenting them here would likely prove to be a futile exercise. That's really the way it should be--we should all be standing firm in our faith.

So should I assume you believe you are right and I am wrong? It's only a "futile exercise" to share differing views when one or both parties are unteachable or unwilling to learn. I'm willing to learn, are you? By the way, Scripture says that believers are to "sharpen" one another, help eachother to see the truth and to attempt unity. We are never encouraged to each believe what we want without testing it or listening to others. Standing firm in our faith means that we are able to defend it.

When we are wrong, the Spirit will guide us into all truth-if indeed truth is what we seek. And if we seek the truth, the truth shall set us free. Yes, I know that God sometimes uses others to teach us (or correct us if need be). When He does, my spirit bears witness with the Truth being presented.

The Holy Spirit is the Comforter who brings conviction to our hearts, guides us, seals us and opens our hearts/wills to the truth. In other words, His role is to speak to our soul, comforting us, convicting us and opening us up to the truth....He does not supernaturally give us divine revelation. The only way to accurately measure anything is against the Word (Scripture). Otherwise you just have multiple believers each suggesting different things and all claiming the Holy Spirit told them it's true. If it's true, it will be supported with Scripture that is rightly divided.

[Kabowd]

There is plenty of scripture on it. There is nothing wrong with the backing of experience. That is what our lives in Christ are all about! We experience Jesus!

No, our lives in Christ are not "all about experience".