Money and Debt

[traveller]

The beginning of a new year seems an appropriate time to discuss managing debt. All of us have financial ups and downs, with seemingly more downs. Maybe it would be a help to look at why we sometimes get into trouble and how to (hopefully) avoid it in the future.

First, I think we should look at money in a spiritual context. Just like we should have a spiritual worldview, we should have a spiritual moneyview. The world that we live in wants our money. Look at all the advertising and marketing dollars that are spent with one goal in mind - to get YOUR dollar. Even if we don't watch t.v. we are assaulted with commercials. Billboards, radio, ads in stores, even the way the store displays are set up. All those that stock shelves trying to sell a product know where to place the most expensive items to get your attention. It's subtle, and very effective. That's why our children what designer shoes, certain cereals, videos and mp3s. That's why we grownups look at certain cars, bigger houses and newer appliances. We dont necessarily NEED a newer car, but we want one. We are the "right now" generation. Just like Esau. Remember his birthright against a bowl of stew? He wanted the stew right then, whereas his birthright was on down the road several years away. Instant gratification. Now his brother Jacob saw the value of the birthright and was willing to wait for what he desired. Delayed gratification.

Genesis 25:30-33

And Esau said to Jacob, "Let me eat some of that red pottage, for I am famished!" (Therefore his name was called Edom.) Jacob said, "First sell me your birthright." Esau said, "I am about to die; of what use is a birthright to me?" Jacob said, "Swear to me first." So he swore to him, and sold his birthright to Jacob.

On down the line Jacob was willing to wait for Rachel, so this was a lifstyle and not a one time event for him. So, one reason that we get into trouble is because we are not willing to wait, so we spend. And if we don't have the money, we charge it. Big mistake. Now, not only do you owe for your purchase, but you owe interest on top of that. Remember that old Tennessee Ernie Ford song "16 Tons" about owing his soul to the company store?

So, what is the answer? Getting free from the grip of money, that's the answer. First, we need to put money and things in their proper place. By having a spiritual moneyview we see that all things are temporary and going to pass away. All things. So, just how important are those Laker tickets? Or that new dress? Or that whatever? Everything needs to be in perspective. Does that mean we should do without forever and not ever wear anything new or drive anything good? Of course not. But we need to see with spiritual eyes. We need to learn to manage what money we have been given by our Lord. In actuality, our financial freedom is determined by what we spend. Is making more money the answer? No. In most cases if we mismanage a small amount, we will mismanage a larger amount. Our appetite grows with our income if we don't learn to put money in it's place.

I have more to say on this, but I have to go for now. By the way - I don't want to offend anyone here. There are those of us that fall on hard times for various reasons. What i am talking about here is mismanagement of what we have, when we have developed that as a way of life.

[tsth]

Dear traveller,

My husband is beginning a Biblical financial course at our church on Sunday nights. Here's the passage of Scripture that he was given regarding our view of money these days. It is from the parable of the seeds:

Matthew 13:22 "And the one on whom seed was sown among the thorns, this is the man who hears the word, and the worry of the world and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful.

We must be very mindful of our view on money and what it can do to our walk.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Catsmeow]

Has anyone heard of "Crown Ministries"? I haven't taken it but heard alot about it.

We have no debt and pay for everything right away. Our home and vehicles are paid for and we keep no credit card debt at all.

Our investments are either kept in fixed annuities, CD's, money market or real estate, (we're ultra conservative in investments).

We WASTE NOTHING! Tithing comes first; offerings come second. Bills are paid as they come due each month.

We emphasize maintenance. We clean, care and maintain everything ourselves...my husband does our own landscaping and yardwork; I do my own cleaning, but it's getting harder now to do and very painful.

We turn off all the lights when not in use; we eat leftovers; we buy at Sam's Club and Walmart, and use alot of "off brands".

I have about 4 pairs of shoes to my name. That's IT! So does my husband.

I have almost no jewelry; don't like it. One pair of fake pearls and a simple gold wedding band...that's it.

We live in a nice home but we live very, very simple and modestly.

*(I love crafts and sewing though )

[Catsmeow]

We must be very mindful of our view on money and what it can do to our walk.

[traveller]

Dear traveller,

My husband is beginning a Biblical financial course at our church on Sunday nights. Here's the passage of Scripture that he was given regarding our view of money these days. It is from the parable of the seeds:

Matthew 13:22 "And the one on whom seed was sown among the thorns, this is the man who hears the word, and the worry of the world and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful.

We must be very mindful of our view on money and what it can do to our walk.

In His Love,

Suzanne

Amen sis! Great scripture! I was going to post this in the Joyce Meyers thread with links to this one and the Holy Spirit led you here. Praise God!

Yes, we must be very mindful of our view of money. One thing about this is that money is like other people's kids. Other people kids are dirty and unruly and not so bright, but our own kids are perfect. What we do with money is sorta that way. We mostly think we have a good handle on it and we judge what others do with theirs. But where is that dividing line that seperates the poor from the rich? When is more rich, and less poor? Who says what is poverty and what is aplenty? I think that line is in our hearts and only God sees it. Money is a thing and has nothing to do with our wealth. Our real treasures will not burn up with all this earthly stuff passes away.

When i say we must have a spiritual moneyview, I am saying we must look at money as what it really is. Money is neutral. It is a thing, not a person or an action. It is how WE view it that matters. Some people with a lot of money don't care much about it while someone with not much money highly values it. Or the other way around. It is what we do with it that matters. It is where our heart is concerning it.

But it is where our heart is concerning THINGS as well, for those things bind us to the world. Consider Sodom and Gomorrah (sp).

Eze 16:49 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.

Fullness of bread. Neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. So, the rich ignored the hungry. The rich got richer and the poor got hungrier. Evidently there was a lot of hungry neglected people. For great was their cry.

Gen 18:20 And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;

Gen 18:21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.

I know I keep repeating myself, but money is a tool, a thing. Maybe it is a guage by which we can be measured, but only by God. Briefly, back to the joyce Meyers issue. Instead of looking at what she is giving or holding, we should be looking at what SELF is doing. As an accountamt I can look at her financial statement and give percentages and such, but I cannot look at her heart or her "plan" or her honesty or her stand with God. Clearly she does feed people. Whether she feeds enough is between she and God. My concern is whether or not I feed people. Is my own money so important to me that I don't give it away? Are things so important to me that I have to bind myself to this world in order to have them? And what have I, me, myself, done with what God has so generously given me? Do I squander it foolishly or do I care for it to help it to grow so that I can plant it back into the kingdom?

[Catsmeow]

My concern is whether or not I feed people. Is my own money so important to me that I don't give it away? Are things so important to me that I have to bind myself to this world in order to have them? And what have I, me, myself, done with what God has so generously given me? Do I squander it foolishly or do I care for it

[tsth]

Has anyone heard of "Crown Ministries"? I haven't taken it but heard alot about it.

Yes cats, that is the course we will be teaching. It is put out by Larry Burkett. It is a very Biblical study, and it is essentially about getting "out" of debt. This study we will be doing is going to be very Biblically based. We must understand that even though money is a "thing", it can be an outward reflection of who we are really serving........the world and it's stuff, or God and His desires for us. We as a culture are getting off base, and our finances have become a reflection of that, whether or not we want to realize that. Terry (my husband) is going to be adament about the fact that if people are coming into this class to get a "quick fix", it's not gonna happen. We will not have a miracle dust that we'll sprinkle and automatically have everyones finances in good shape. It's going to take an honest heart and good look at ourselves to recognize exactly where we got "off track" so to speak. It will take much trust and faith in God and His Word, discipline and self-control of ourselves, dying to self, and time, to make this come out right. But isn't that what it's always about? Being "ready" to come to a point of surrender? We must do the same with our finances, and be willing to adhere to God's instructions for us.

If you ever look in the word and do a study on covetousness and riches, you'd be surprised how much money is influencing our walk in this day and time, and seemingly in the same was as it was in the days of Jesus.

Even in a short study of John the Baptist's first message to the people, it was all about greed and jobs and money and how we treat each other because of it.

Luke 3:10 So the people asked him, saying, "What shall we do then?" 11 He answered and said to them, "He who has two tunics, let him give to him who has none; and he who has food, let him do likewise." 12 Then tax collectors also came to be baptized, and said to him, "Teacher, what shall we do?" 13 And he said to them, "Collect no more than what is appointed for you." 14 Likewise the soldiers asked him, saying, "And what shall we do?" So he said to them, "Do not intimidate anyone or accuse falsely, and be content with your wages."

Interesting isn't it, that all of the above have to do with money, sharing our "stuff" and the wages we earn? There was a problem with coveteousness back then too.......Luke 16 (the whole chapter, but with particular interest in these passages)

13 No servant can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon." 14 Now the Pharisees, who were lovers of money, also heard all these things, and they derided Him. 15 And He said to them, "You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is highly esteemed among men is an abomination in the sight of God. 16 The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it.

(Interesting too is that it was a prevelant problem within the church back then.)

Matthew 6:24 "No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and wealth.

Mt 13:22

"And the one on whom seed was sown among the thorns, this is the man who hears the word, and the worry of the world and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful.

Cats, if your church offers it, the course is a video study with a $10.00 workbook. It is very comprehensive about getting out of debt. I would highly recommend it for someone wanting to get a handle on money management.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[tsth]

Amen sis! Great scripture! I was going to post this in the Joyce Meyers thread with links to this one and the Holy Spirit led you here. Praise God!

Amen! I think so too Trav. I would not have seen it if it were there.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[traveller]

Terry (my husband) is going to be adament about the fact that if people are coming into this class to get a "quick fix", it's not gonna happen. We will not have a miracle dust that we'll sprinkle and automatically have everyones finances in good shape. It's going to take an honest heart and good look at ourselves to recognize exactly where we got "off track" so to speak.

This is so true. For most it takes years to get into serious financial trouble, and, barring devine intervention, it's going to take a long time to get out. It's a hard painful lesson to learn. Been there myself. And, like you say sis, we must understand why we do it to begin with. And come to terms with what we discover.

[ginakay]

very good thread. I can see room for improvement in myself. It seems like it is so easy to get into debt and not so easy to get out. So true that it is a spiritual matter as much as anything. If we really let God the the Lord of our life then I doubt we would fall into some of these debt traps as easily.

There are some though who have had illness and chronic health problems and enormous debt due to medical expenses. I have a dear friend who had planned wisely and saved etc but her husbands heart problems finally took every cent they had saved. But the Lord has provided for them.