No Second Chance

[WayneB]

Calamity,

You sumarized your position extremely well with OUTSTANDING use of Scripture. For what it is worth, I would give you an A+++ on all accounts. Truth must be based on God's Word and not just our feelings. Like Job, we need to come to a place that we realize we don't have all the answers but must stick by the Truth in God's Word. Your post was very articulate and gentle. Thank you for taking the time to write it.

Teri, think about what you are saying, please. This is my last long post on this subject. Maybe my last one period. I'm very concerned about what you and OneAccord are saying, and will remember you in my prayers.

PLEASE don not make this your "last one period. I look forward to hearing more from you on other subjects.

God Bless you sister,

Wayne

Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; 6 in all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make your paths straight.

[Guest Calamity]

Calamity,

You sumarized your position extremely well with OUTSTANDING use of Scripture. For what it is worth, I would give you an A+++ on all accounts. Truth must be based on God's Word and not just our feelings. Like Job, we need to come to a place that we realize we don't have all the answers but must stick by the Truth in God's Word. Your post was very articulate and gentle. Thank you for taking the time to write it.

Teri, think about what you are saying, please. This is my last long post on this subject. Maybe my last one period. I'm very concerned about what you and OneAccord are saying, and will remember you in my prayers.

PLEASE don not make this your "last one period. I look forward to hearing more from you on other subjects.

God Bless you sister,

Wayne

Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; 6 in all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make your paths straight.

Wayne, I appreciate it. I didn't mean "last" post period, just on this thread. It depends, on if I feel like I should respond or not. Truthfully, it has exhausted me doing this, but if I feel that God wants me to post further, then I'll try.

[eric]

Hi Calamity, I have to agree with Savedbygrace on this one, and I can imagine how exhausted you must feel.However I can empathise with Teri because I would have asked the same sort of questions when I was first saved. Your patience is to be admired. I believe that there are many young christuans out there who would like to put the same questions forward, but are like I was, sit at the back of the class and keep my mouth shut.

Any way I enjoyed the read myself. Well done blessings.

[traveller]

Calamity - well done sis!

Teri, OneAccord, I know both of you are in prayer over this. I will be in prayer for you as well.

[ann2]

Pam i am a little lost also!!But thus i do know if we had all the answers wec would be just like GOD.God is a God of love but he is the same God who sent the flood to kill all the earth-----who took the 1st.born of Egypt & killed them.Love yes but He wants obeidence.Praise His Holy name

[Guest idolsmasher]

Obedience doesn't mean anything without love. God wants us to obey him out of love, not out of fear.

1 John 4:16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

1 John 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

[WayneB]

God wants us to obey him out of love, not out of fear.

I know what you mean but Scripture puts fear in another context ---

Ecc 12:13 Now all has been heard;

here is the conclusion of the matter:

Fear God and keep his commandments,

for this is the whole duty of man.

Fear, in the way God uses it, is love. Fear is respect. Fear is not cowering in a corner waiting for His wrath. We have nothing to tremble of if we are in Christ but we are directed to fear God. We are to fear God (the catalyst of our relationship) and obey God (maintenance of our relationship).

Just a thought.

God Bless,

Wayne

[Guest Teri]

Calamity I ask that you study the law of Redemption and the law of Jubilee. Christ said not one jot or tittle would be removed from the law until it is completely fulfilled. As we or most of us know, the sacrificial system is fulfilled in Christ being the sacrifice. The Sabbath if fulfilled in Christ being our Sabbath rest. Christ is our redeemer, our next of kin who redeemed us to our rightful place in God so the law of redemption has been fulfilled, and continues to be fulfilled. The year of Jublilee, the law of it has not been fulfilled. In the law of Redemption a price must be paid for the redemption of the person to his right of return. Christ paid this price on the cross. But where ever in the history of man has the Jublilee been fulfilled which has no requirements on any part, no price to be paid, no requirements whatsoever. All slaves were set free, prisoners were released, all debts forgiven. All returned to there former estate. Tell me where this has been fulfilled in our history. When has the rams horn been sounded all over the land to call God's children back to their rightful inheritance, to the place of their first estate? Some may tell you this is what is happening now with the return of the Jews to Israel but that is impossible because they have been blinded until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. The first shall come last and the last shall come first.

And tell me this if all men became sinners through the actions of one man, and all men may be redeemed through the actions of one man. Is then the first man stronger than the last, does he have more power to bring total destruction and captivity to all of mankind where the second man can only save a simple few?

I am the Alpha and Omega says the Lord, the beginning and the end. We began in God and when the rams horns blow all through out the land we will all return to the Lord. In the Second death Hell and death will be done away with after the first death where in all men will have died to themselves and bow down and worship Christ. Now there is some good news,

I could go the route and go through all the scriptures, but this is something all of need to search out with great pouring out of ourselves and begging and pleading with God to show us the wisdom which can only be understood while in the presence of the Holy Spirit. After a good thourough study of these laws we can discuss it and see how the rest of scripture lines up in that light. Because I really do have answers for everything you wrote, but without this information we will be walking on different paths.

In Yeshua's love

Teri

[Guest Calamity]

Teri: "Christ said not one jot or tittle would be removed from the law until it is completely fulfilled. As we or most of us know, the sacrificial system is fulfilled in Christ being the sacrifice. The Sabbath if fulfilled in Christ being our Sabbath rest. Christ is our redeemer, our next of kin who redeemed us to our rightful place in God so the law of redemption has been fulfilled, and continues to be fulfilled. The year of Jublilee, the law of it has not been fulfilled."

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Matthew 5:

[17] Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

[18] For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Jesus did fulfill the law, and he did it perfectly, as no one else ever had, or ever could.

He fulfilled the doctrinal teachings of the law because He brought full revelation. He fulfilled the predictive prophecy of the law in that He is the Promised One, showing the reality behind the shadows, And,

He fulfilled the ethical precepts of the law in that He fully obeyed them and He reinterpreted them in their truth.

Teri: In the law of Redemption a price must be paid for the redemption of the person to his right of return. Christ paid this price on the cross. But where ever in the history of man has the Jublilee been fulfilled which has no requirements on any part, no price to be paid, no requirements whatsoever.

All slaves were set free, prisoners were released, all debts forgiven. All returned to there former estate."

Teri, we have no "right" to go to heaven on our own. We were never there to begin with to "return", so if you are applying this to us, then what do you mean, "right of return". Jesus paid the price for our sins, so that by grace, through faith, we might believe and be saved, and spend eternity in Heaven. The only "right" we merit of ourselves, is to perish. Jesus didn't pay the price for our "right to return". How can we return to somewhere we have never been? This sounds New Age almost.

Deut. 15

[12] And if thy brother, an Hebrew man, or an Hebrew woman , be sold unto thee, and serve thee six years; then in the seventh year thou shalt let him go free from thee.

Even here, the person had a choice of whether to go free or to stay:

[16] And it shall be, if he say unto thee, I will not go away from thee; because he loveth thee and thine house, because he is well with thee;

[17] Then thou shalt take an aul, and thrust it through his ear unto the door, and he shall be thy servant for ever. And also unto thy maidservant thou shalt do likewise.

But regardless of this law, Christ fulfilled the law. And, the law pointed to Christ, before His birth:

Luke.24

[44] And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

And, also:

Rom.13

[8] Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

Gal.5

[14] For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

And, we, who are in Christ, are not under the law now.

John.1

[17] For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Rom.7

[4] Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Rom.8

[2] For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Rom.10

[4] For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Gal.3

[13] Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

[24] Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Teri: "And tell me this if all men became sinners through the actions of one man, and all men may be redeemed through the actions of one man. Is then the first man stronger than the last, does he have more power to bring total destruction and captivity to all of mankind where the second man can only save a simple few?

Romans 5

[12] Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

[15] But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

[17] For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

[20] Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

[21] That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

It's not even comprehensible to think that the first was stronger than the last. Sin leads to death. The wages of sin is death. Adam had no power to offer eternal life, or to redeem mankind by his blood. Jesus did.

[21] That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Teri: "I am the Alpha and Omega says the Lord, the beginning and the end. We began in God and when the rams horns blow all through out the land we will all return to the Lord."

We began when God created us. He foreknew us, but we were not in existance before, like God was. He was in the beginning. We were created by Him. Several teachings say that we were always in existence in spirit form and I believe that is unbiblical.

Zech.12

[1] The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.

Rev. 21

[6] And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

[7] He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

1John.5

[5] Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

Yes, He's the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. And He will give the fountain of the water of life freely, to those who choose to receive it. Those who receive Christ as their Savior will be with Him in eternity. Those who don't, will not, by their choice.

Teri: "In the Second death Hell and death will be done away with after the first death where in all men will have died to themselves and bow down and worship Christ. Now there is some good news,.."

Rev.20

[6] Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

[14] And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Rev.21

[8] But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Rev.2

[11] He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

1John.5

[5] Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

Teri: "Now there is some good news,.."

Teri, the Good News, is the Gospel.

[Guest shadow2b]

-Does the Bible say that Lazarus never repented? I say, if he was in Abraham's Bosom after he died, that he was a believer, obviously, and the rich man was in torment, so he obviously was not a believer. This was before Christ was crucified, resurrected and ascended. Some believe that Abraham's Bosom was where the Saints went before that, and that Jesus went there to get them, so they could be in Heaven with Him, after his crucifixation, and resurrection.

-YUPPP---YUPPPP----sounds bout raaghht ta me too.... ALL those that have died{in the faith--JESUS}right

-up until this very day,those souls are under the altar of GOD--spoken of in REV.6.vss.9.thru.11------

-RAAAGHHHTTT on Calam----