Is Hell ETERNAL?

[Guest Teri]

Can I ask a simple question? If none of you are giddy with Joy over any of this than why are you spending so much time on it? Why do you seek out all the other people here who are unsaved, what is the motivation for it? Are you charging into those places of the damned and yelling the message of salvation? Are you on the street corners passing out tracks to everyone passing by? Are you selling your home and all your personal belongings so you can run over to India and show some love to a doomed people? Oh you say your trying to save everyone here from false teaching and that would be such a worthy cause except we're on a christian board here and all of us are christians so we are all saved because we all believe in Christ. Get your butt out of that chair and do something for crying out loud their all going to burn.

Dr. Luke those are all good passages, and I hope you understand that Christ's flesh is the Word. Meaning consume the Word which I do about five to eight hours everyday so I'm in the good here, I don't have to worry about it, I'm saved according to your post.

Look at the nonsense going on here. I ask Calamity to explain the scriptures she posted. She comes back and tells me she is not a Bible scholar so she can't explain her response which makes it nil and void but a bunch of other people give her a bunch of praise for posting something she herself doesn't even understand. Does this make any sense what so ever.

I have asked repeatedly how one dies in an eternal lake of fire with weeping and torment going on. So who are the dead and who are the living that are weeping? The question for this thread is this. Is hell eternal and it has been clearly identified that it can't be since death and hell will be thrown into the lake of fire. So the question has been answered it's no it's not eternal because it is going to be thrown into the lake of fire. Or one could say it is eternal because it's going to be thrown into a lake of eternal fire so it will still be there because it's going to be in an eternal place. Then we run into another problem because Christ defeated death and He has the keys to hell and death. So is Jesus a savior or a jailer? He has the keys so He has to be one or the other, go ahead pick one.

In Yeshua's love

Teri

[WayneB]

The above paragraph illustrates how little you actually understand about what you disagree with. I get the impression from your posts that you think that we are almost giddy with joy that others will go to Hell. I could be wrong, but that is what I am feeling.

Me neither. I actually feel a heavy burden when I think of it and it has encouraged me to spread the Good News to the lost and minister to the saved regarding how to grow spiritually. Why would I do any of that if everyone's salvation was already ensured? Why would Jesus told me to do it [Matthew 28] if it wasn't necessary?

[Ovedya]

Teri,

I know this was your response to Calamity, but I wanted to point out a few issues to you concerning your argument, that may pose some serious theological errors:

Let

[Ovedya]

I concur with Shiloah's last remark.  The Hebrew owlam in its various contexts means, "eternal, ever, everlasting, old, perpetual, evermore, never, time, ancient, world, always, alway, long, more. "  There is absolutely no reason to make the assumption that owlam means a certain specified period of time.  Furthermore, there is no reason to presume that someone somewhere must have "dropped his pen" and translated it wrong on all accounts, and that someone else suddenly made the miraculous discovery that we have been wrong for a thousands of years. I would also like to see concrete proof of these statements.

There are quite a number of brilliants theologians who have labored long in the Scriptures and concluded that certain words have been mis-trtanslated or slanted to create a whole new meaning from the intended. Unfortunately these folks are viewed as heretics by the mainline theologians and and their work is not given serious consideration.

Here is a wepage that might be of interest:

http://www.concordant.org/about/index.html

http://www.concordant.org/version/how1.html

http://www.concordant.org/version/how2.html

I understand this. But there have also been some briliant theologins that have gone back to many of the original texts and confirmed or corrected those problems in translation.

Some would have believe that there was an entire conspiracy by the original translators of the Bible to slant certain words or phrases of the original texts, in order to profit the RCC, or for some other nefarious reason. I'm sorry, but I just don't buy into that. Let us reason, brother. Where is the concrete evidence of what is being claimed by Mr. J Preston Eby? You do know that Teri's argument is almost verbatim with his, right? And yet, after examining his website, I see that he uses practically no authoritative sources to evidence his claims. In fact, I have seen even very little Biblical authority in his arguments.

[Guest Calamity]

You don't get saved just by reading God's Word. It will lead you to the Truth, but just reading doesn't do it.

Hell (or whichever term you prefer), is real, it's permanent, and those who are lost will end up there. It's in the Bible you read, but somehow you have listened to someone who has changed the Word of God around to make it a lie.

Right - I am no Bible scholar. I do what I can, with the knowledge I have, and hope to grow more as I go. But, like I said, it doesn't take a Bible scholar to understand the simple message of the Gospel, and to see that not ALL are going to accept Christ, and be with Him in Heaven. A child can understand that.

Teri, please don't listen to those who have twisted God's Word around to mean something it doesn't. I truly hope you are not spreading this teaching to others also, because you will be leading them down the wrong path right along with yourself. After death, you'll know the Truth, and so will others, but there will not be a second chance then.

2 Corinthians 6

1 As God's fellow workers we urge you not to receive God's grace in vain.

2 For he says, "In the time of my favor I heard you, and in the day of salvation I helped you."[1] I tell you, now is the time of God's favor, now is the day of salvation.

2Tim.4

[1] I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

[2] Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

[3] For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

[4] And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Please don't turn from the Truth, unto fables and false teachings.

[Ovedya]

I have asked repeatedly how one dies in an eternal lake of fire with weeping and torment going on. So who are the dead and who are the living that are weeping? The question for this thread is this. Is hell eternal and it has been clearly identified that it can't be since death and hell will be thrown into the lake of fire. So the question has been answered it's no it's not eternal because it is going to be thrown into the lake of fire. Or one could say it is eternal because it's going to be thrown into a lake of eternal fire so it will still be there because it's going to be in an eternal place. Then we run into another problem because Christ defeated death and He has the keys to hell and death. So is Jesus a savior or a jailer? He has the keys so He has to be one or the other, go ahead pick one.

Teri, if you examine the Bible closely and determine that the outer darkness in Matthew and the lake of fire in Revelation are two separate places, then such questions and confusion may be easily answered. If you like, I can help to distinguish the differences between the two.

[Matthitjah]

Teri

Dr. Luke those are all good passages, and I hope you understand that Christ's flesh is the Word. Meaning consume the Word which I do about five to eight hours everyday so I'm in the good here, I don't have to worry about it, I'm saved according to your post.

What good is the Word without Faith? I can quote scripture all day to the pagan at work. His problem? He won't mix that Word with Faith!

Look at the nonsense going on here. I ask Calamity to explain the scriptures she posted. She comes back and tells me she is not a Bible scholar so she can't explain her response which makes it nil and void but a bunch of other people give her a bunch of praise for posting something she herself doesn't even understand. Does this make any sense what so ever.

What reward do you seek?

Is there anything more? Than His body and blood?

Not trying to be provocative.

Just confused.

You seem to think that G-d is not just if He condemns? He condemns because He is Just.

Why not just restore satan as well.? Or do you think maybe satan isn't willing to be restored?

We pray His will be done on earth as in heaven. We are behind enemy lines here. Yet our Lord broke thru in all His Glory! Why the desperation? If He was gonna just restore everything anyway? Why not just restore the kingdom right then? He could have called on all the angels right then.

In your line of thought He is a sadist for letting this go on so long. Rather the fact that He is long suffering. He suffers at every loss. Yet He suffers long so that none should perish.

Sister I do Love you,

Dave

[Guest Teri]

God man thank you for handling this in a logical manner. I still have to disagree and several points. Let me start with the adjective which in all languages supports the noun. I could say I go to college, college being the noun. Then I could say I need 10 college credits, college has now become an adjective which supports a noun credits but the meaning of college did not change. Your reasoning is coming from the concordance and not from rules of language or a dictionary. You only have to go to a Greek to English dictionary to bear this out. I could say Today and it would be a noun. Or I could say todays date and the word today is now an adjective describing the noun date but the word today did not change in it's original meaning. There is no word that can change the root of the word by becoming an adjective and one can not clearly find the true meaning in a concordance. Paul did not write with what he thought we might mean in mind he wrote from exactly where he was at in the moment he was living.

Your other points are well taken and would make perfect sense except it makes no sense that a literal lake of lava if you will would have any effect on a non literal thing such as sin, death, or hades as you explained it. Let's go back to the Word.

1 Timothy 1:1 "I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessins and giving of thanks, be made for ALL MEN; for kings, and for ALL that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; WHO WILL HAVE ALL MEN TO BE SAVED, AND COME UNTO THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; who gave Himself a ransom for ALL, to be testified in due time.

The way everyone is explaining all of this to me means simply this. Our will is going to overide Gods will. Your telling me non literal things are going to burn up in a literal place, and in fact your telling me that Christ as stated above did not give a ransom for all but for a few, and that due time is not what the original written word of God says but is really the word or words that were translated into the english via Latin because it is completely unequivacably impossible for them to come out of there original source as forever and eternal simply because those words did not even exist in the entire Greek and Hebrew language in the days of the writings. There is no word to translate forever or eternal from because they were not there. I have said this before and I don't mind clarifying it, when I put those words into the search engine for the times of the writings of scripture they came back no match found. And it would only make sense that they were not found because something like that would not exist in our age that is maintained and dependant on a created thing like time.

We in our current day language are so completely irresponsible with words. English is a very barbaric language. Just look at it, you've been in that bathroom forever, you've been on the phone for an eternity, is this going to go on forever. Greek and Hebrew are pure languages, clean, precise, devoid of all our errors. God used these languages to write His Holy texts so they could not in any way shape or form be misunderstood. God wills and it is. God spoke and all around you everything came into being. God speaks through the scriptures to us, it is His word. Now line up His Holy Word that He wills all men to be saved with that word of eternity in the english and it simply does not fit. It does not fit anywhere. Adam through sin brought death to ALL men, Christ through sacrifice brings salvation to ALL men. That fits with what I'm saying, it does not fit with what you are saying. So about the only thing I can agree with here is that ALL scripture has to line up.

Oh Godman this isn't about us, or about the sinners going to hell, it's all about Him, it's all about bringing about Gods glory in the earth and tormenting the majority of all His creation does not and will never bring glory to God. Look around at the nations that are knocking down sinners like flys. India, China, Russia there coming to their knees all over the place in these places. So what is wrong because it's not happening here in America. You know why, because our language has distorted the true gospel of Christ and we are not preaching the GOOD NEWS we are preaching hell and fear and damnation. Darkness that's what we're preaching here and darkness will never cut through the darkness. We have lost so many because of this gospel we preach. Mothers who's sons died without knowing Christ can't accept any more a fire that burns endlessly tormenting their child so they leave. Brothers and sisters and sons and daughters who lost one without our idea of salvation walk away. Why because when they came to us we put more condemnation and chains on them. People who can't get the sin to go away no matter how much they pray finally throw in the towel and say oh well I'm going to hell anyway I may as well enjoy it. Fear will never win souls to the Lord, condemnation will never cut the darkness, only the absolute assurance that no matter what and no matter in what due time Jesus Christ paid the price for all mankind will the darkness flee at the shining light of the Cross.

And tell me this all of you who think I am so misguided. For years now I have only asked God for three things for myself. A clean heart, His wisdom and knowledge of things and goings on in the heavenly places, and His will be done in my life, that no matter what I thought I wanted that I knew He knew better than I so it was only His will I seek. Do all of you really think that my prayers have fallen on deaf ears.

In Yeshua's love

Teri

[Matthitjah]

Sister,

You are assuming that we all self righteously condemn the lost. When we were such ourselves at once.

Rather we may rush to Execute True Judgment so as to field His Glory!

Yes I myself like you have prayed the same things. I have kicked over coffee tables in my own living room. Desperately seeking to have my own family saved.

It does not change the fact. That there is no other name under heaven. That name must be confessed and accepted by the hearer. Jesus Christ! Otherwise He will be ashamed of them before His Father. For they Loved their lives more. They Loved themselves more.

Yes the western Church is full of powerful weaklings practicing polotics. What then? We need a revival big time!

Yet changing the Gospel to fill our needs will not bring this about! We need the Lord to change us. How? We must be willing!

I had a 1,000 Bulls to offer. He said keep it!

I had my opinion! He said Keep it!

I brought forth the fruit of the ground that I had produced! He said this is all wrong!

What then does He desire?

Peace,

Dave

[WayneB]

Yet changing the Gospel to fill our needs will not bring this about! We need the Lord to change us. How? We must be willing!

I had a 1,000 Bulls to offer. He said keep it!

I had my opinion! He said Keep it!

I brought forth the fruit of the ground that I had produced! He said this is all wrong!

What then does He desire?

Our agape love...nothing less! Well put brother Dave.

Matthew 22:36 "Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37 Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."