Is Hell ETERNAL?

[Guest shiloh357]

1 Timothy 1:1 "I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessins and giving of thanks, be made for ALL MEN; for kings, and for ALL that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; WHO WILL HAVE ALL MEN TO BE SAVED, AND COME UNTO THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; who gave Himself a ransom for ALL, to be testified in due time.

The way everyone is explaining all of this to me means simply this. Our will is going to overide Gods will.

Teri, God has both a perfect and permissive Will. God's perfect Will is that all men should be saved. God's permissive Will allows men to reject Him. God allows people to murder, rape, steal, and abuse, even though such things are against His perfect Will.

There is no word to translate forever or eternal from because they were not there. I have said this before and I don't mind clarifying it, when I put those words into the search engine for the times of the writings of scripture they came back no match found. And it would only make sense that they were not found because something like that would not exist in our age that is maintained and dependant on a created thing like time.

I seriously doubt that you have the educational background to make the assertion that there was no word to translate "forever" from. It is That is just plain false. As far as the search engine you are using, which one is it? How do you know that you are using the right methods for learning what words mean? Hebrew and Greek are languages that require a lot of (years) study to understand. Has it occured to you that you do not possess sufficient knowledge to really comment on what Hebrew or Greek words mean? Do you possess an advanced degree in biblical languages?

If King David were to walk down the streets of Jerusalem today, He could talk to anyone in his mother tounge and be perfectly understood. Modern Hebrew is a modified version of biblical Hebrew to account for modern techonology and the modern culture in which the Jews find themselves. Olam today still means forever. If you were to tell a Hebrew speaking Jew what you have told us on this board, you would get laughed into the ground.

We in our current day language are so completely irresponsible with words. English is a very barbaric language. Just look at it, you've been in that bathroom forever, you've been on the phone for an eternity, is this going to go on forever. Greek and Hebrew are pure languages, clean, precise, devoid of all our errors.

These are all figures of speech. They are not errors. You would find similar things in the "street" talk of modern Jews. Even in the Bible figures of speech exist. God told the Israelites that the Canaanites would be a thorn in their side. Paul referred to a "thorn in His flesh" when talking about the persecution he faced for the gospel. So, do not mistake figures of speech for literal references.

And tell me this all of you who think I am so misguided. For years now I have only asked God for three things for myself. A clean heart, His wisdom and knowledge of things and goings on in the heavenly places, and His will be done in my life, that no matter what I thought I wanted that I knew He knew better than I so it was only His will I seek. Do all of you really think that my prayers have fallen on deaf ears.

So, how do you know that the instruction you have recieved by God-man, Calamity and others is not an anwer to your prayers. You asked for wisdom and knowledge, and when it is presented you reject it. Maybe your prayers are not falling on deaf ears, but rather it is His answers that are falling on deaf ears.

[Ovedya]

God man thank you for handling this in a logical manner. I still have to disagree and several points. Let me start with the adjective which in all languages supports the noun. I could say I go to college, college being the noun. Then I could say I need 10 college credits, college has now become an adjective which supports a noun credits but the meaning of college did not change. Your reasoning is coming from the concordance and not from rules of language or a dictionary. You only have to go to a Greek to English dictionary to bear this out. I could say Today and it would be a noun. Or I could say todays date and the word today is now an adjective describing the noun date but the word today did not change in it's original meaning. There is no word that can change the root of the word by becoming an adjective and one can not clearly find the true meaning in a concordance. Paul did not write with what he thought we might mean in mind he wrote from exactly where he was at in the moment he was living.

You are mistaken. I did not write that a noun, when used as an adjective, changes the meaning of the word. As you said, today is still today, regardless of how it used. However, the emphasis changes in the example you gave above. This is the point I was making with regard to the word Aionos. Aion is a noun which is given to mean

[OneAccord]

I

[His son]

Can I ask a simple question? If none of you are giddy with Joy over any of this than why are you spending so much time on it? Why do you seek out all the other people here who are unsaved, what is the motivation for it? Are you charging into those places of the damned and yelling the message of salvation? Are you on the street corners passing out tracks to everyone passing by? Are you selling your home and all your personal belongings so you can run over to India and show some love to a doomed people? Oh you say your trying to save everyone here from false teaching and that would be such a worthy cause except we're on a christian board here and all of us are christians so we are all saved because we all believe in Christ. Get your butt out of that chair and do something for crying out loud their all going to burn.

Dr. Luke those are all good passages, and I hope you understand that Christ's flesh is the Word. Meaning consume the Word which I do about five to eight hours everyday so I'm in the good here, I don't have to worry about it, I'm saved according to your post.

Look at the nonsense going on here. I ask Calamity to explain the scriptures she posted. She comes back and tells me she is not a Bible scholar so she can't explain her response which makes it nil and void but a bunch of other people give her a bunch of praise for posting something she herself doesn't even understand. Does this make any sense what so ever.

I have asked repeatedly how one dies in an eternal lake of fire with weeping and torment going on. So who are the dead and who are the living that are weeping? The question for this thread is this. Is hell eternal and it has been clearly identified that it can't be since death and hell will be thrown into the lake of fire. So the question has been answered it's no it's not eternal because it is going to be thrown into the lake of fire. Or one could say it is eternal because it's going to be thrown into a lake of eternal fire so it will still be there because it's going to be in an eternal place. Then we run into another problem because Christ defeated death and He has the keys to hell and death. So is Jesus a savior or a jailer? He has the keys so He has to be one or the other, go ahead pick one.

In Yeshua's love

Teri

You have to deny a whole lot of Scriptures that tell you that the fire they are in is everlasting fire and their torment ascends up forever. Death in The Bible is identified in The book of Genesis when God told Adam he would die if he ate of the wrong tree. Adam did, and how did he die? He died to his personal relationship with God. Everyone is going to live forever some in heaven some in hell. It's really that simple, and we all have all the information we need, and the freewill to choose which way we will go.

[Ovedya]

God-man, could you please define what you mean here by humanitarianism and misdirected compassion?

Sure. What I mean is the compassion that man has for man is misguided and misdirected toward the redefiining of Biblical doctrine and of intentionally mis-stating what the word of God says or means. Rather than accepting the fact that God condemns sinners to hell, and directing his compassion toward getting men saved to avoid hell, some have attempted to dispute the very word of God itself. This is what I mean by humanitarianism and misdirected compassion. The New Age movement loves to do this. They would have us believe that all religious roads lead to God, and that all men, despite their past wrongdoings and unbelief, will eventually find God - whether in this world or the next. This kind of thinking has been invading the church for centuries, believe it or not, and is strongly tied to gnosticism.

I'm a little confused here, because I also understand that we are supposed to be trying to achieve agape love.

The word "achieve" to me indicates works. I'm sorry if it seems I'm being too picky. But there is nothing that we can do to achieve the love of God. Agape is the love that humans are incapable of producing outside the realm of fellowship with God. Since God is Agape (1 John 4:8), we need Him first to indwell us. Next, we need to live by God, grow in God, and express God in all of His attributes. This includes the love of God. It is nothing that we do of ourselves, but it is all of God Himself. This is contrary to what some believers think, however. Some believers try to exercise their natural love toward their fellow man and call it agape - which it is clearly not. The love produced outside the realm of the divine life is fickle. It wanes. It is insufficient to express the eternal love of God to sinners.

PS_I don't think I'm sidetracking here, I think it has much to do with this conversation, as it is a genuine love for fellow man that would cause anyone to balk at an eternal hell.

That's the problem. It is not a genuine love for man. It is a fickle indecisive, and unpredictable affection. One minute you love someone, the next you hate him. This kind of love clouds the mind, and causes one to decide unreasonably and illogicaly. This is not the kind of love that God desires we express to others.

I don't think the idea of punishing and judging sin is in question here at all, I think it is the extreme nature of eternal punishment.

Again, this is your human reasoning contrasting with Biblical truth. Yet the Bible does not need your opinion for validation. It alone stands as truth. Rather than adjusting the Bible to fit your own concepts, you need to adjust your concepts to the Bible. You consider eternal punishment as extreme, but the Bible does not say so. Just imagine how the John must have felt recording these things. He very well may have felt the same way as you do. Yet he recorded these things as he saw them - as God commanded him to. He did not rely upon his own sense of right and wrong. Think about it.

[Guest Teri]

God man a very complete study on the translations of the Bible will very clearly show anyone interested that the whole idea of eternal hell was introduced somewhere in the 300 to 420 range. Like I have stated before I don't recall the exact dates, but I have done the study and find it to be of great help in this. If you are truly interested in the truth of the matter you will do the research. So way back then the whole idea of eternal fire, eternal damnation, forever was new age and still clings to us with it's tenacious paws.

I am not going to keep going on with the words Aionos or Owlam because I am the one who pointed out they are the right words and no one here will dare to go to an ancient dictionary and look them up. So it's dropped.

Now your saying out of your human reasoning and experience that Agape love is impossible for us. Well what can I say you are wrong and I will continue to follow the Spirit who is guiding me in becoming one who is becoming filled with agape love. You are right that I in and of myself am incapable of it but because of Christ who resides in me by the name of the Holy Spirit who in Him all things are possible I would have to definitely disagree. As far as God not getting what He desires that is nonsense. God will get what He wants for He is God and there is no other. Address what I said about Gods glory please. Would it bring God glory tormenting the majority of His creation forever ad infinitum. Or would it bring God glory to save it all for Himself, for His own purposes? Address my statement about Christ having the keys to death and hell and what exactly is He doing with them? And while we are on it is Jesus literally a lamb with four legs, or is He a lion with a mane, is He bread, or is He water? In your understanding John was having a difficult time telling us about what he saw so he said a lake of lava was a lake of fire. Does the book of revelation change according to what we want to believe like as in one moment it is speaking literally and the next it is showing signs? Did anyone notice in one of Doves posts where she showed the meanings of the word quench which many were contradictory and she only highlighted the ones she wanted us to look at? Did anyone pay any attention to Paul saying we should pray for all rulers and kings which would include those we find to be dispicable? If Saddam came to Christ tomorrow would you believe it? Would you fall on your face and praise God for calling Him out of the wilderness into His loving arms or would you cry foul? Would you elevate yourself to the throne and condemn that which God wills to be saved?

I have to move on my friends because even if you don't believe it I and God know where I stand with Him. He has removed the yoke of fear from my shoulders and people all around me are falling under His loving sword. Praise be to the Lord, because it is not I that brings this about but Him and it is not for my benefit or my glory but His.

In Yeshua's neverending love and mercy

Teri

[RGR]

So, please tell us, how long is Hell going to be if not eternal? I don't mean to sound pernicious here, but surely the Bible would give us some indication if Hell were not everlasting. Does this also mean that there will be an end to the Kingdom of Christ? The Bible says that there will be no end to His kingdom. But, maybe that's not what it really meant?

Yes, Jesus does have the keys to death, hell, and the grave. Jailers have keys to the jail cells, but that doesn't mean that all of the prisoners are going to be allowed to roam free just because Deputy Barney Fife has the keys to it (well criminals might roam free with him around!). See the point? Christ has the keys to lock it and unlock it-that doesn't mean He is going to let everyone out.

Be careful what you credit to God because Satan comes as an angel of light, so do be on guard.

[Guest dove2]

Teri said: Did anyone notice in one of Doves posts where she showed the meanings of the word quench which many were contradictory and she only highlighted the ones she wanted us to look at?

Teri in all of my posts the only things I highlighted were the phrases you misquoted and said that I said. I never highlighted another thing in my posts. I wanted you to see that I did not say that "Jesus is a shadow of Christ" or that "Jonah is Jesus." Other than this I have highlighted nothing. You must be thinking about someone else. You are great at taking what people says out of context. Are you sure you are not taking what you are reading out of context on the Bible?

[Guest shadow2b]

-Anyway I'm rambling so I'll shut up.

I have not been aware of this site for very long, but I must say that it is a real pleasure to read you all.

I hope you will forgive my typing skills and a few misspelled words.

-RAMBLIN-???? hmmmmm???seems ta be catching then, I been doin a lotta that thaRr"RAMBLIN"

-lately--IF ya wanna go back overr some ova mah earlier posts...

-ahhhhhhh--WeLLL,yo pleasure is sho ta turn ta DIS-pleasure & A few faightin werds after awhile.

-Don't knows why but it sho seems ta turn out thataway tho...Don't spose it cudd be cuzz we-ze

-kind-a-hot-headed duzz ya??mayhap yuse cudd prey fer usins??typin skels & myss-spled werds??now thet isa tha won thang weuns jes wilknot tolley-rate roun hyaRr bubb--i kin wrek-o-min mah cusin el-mor

ta teches ya theem typin skels--he wen to tha thudd gradde..he jes sen me a knew picchur ova hisseff & he'sa musikal two

[Guest shadow2b]

-Calamity: From what I understand they believe if they pay thier tithes correctly they will be gods on their own planet. Yep, pretty weird doctrine wouldn't you say?

-WOOOWWWWWWW--just PAY a tithe-{buy??pay??}your way into heaven????now "that's"an

-oldie but goodie----acts.5.vss.1.thru.11---acts.8.vss.13.thru.24---- interesting concept BUT

-according to scripture;BALONEY!!!or more correctly--BOLOGNA!!!sometymes talkin ta"some"of ya'll is likeagin a brick-wall- :wacko: I sho-duzz gits weery tho..