Split - Faith vs Works

[Eliyahuw]

As I said, amazing how everyone brings in "works" but do they know what it entails?

I think we all have attested to what the Lord says about it. We believe that a person who is regenerated in Christ will reflect that faith in Him by his behaviour. Faith spurs us on to good works for God. No works? Weak or no faith. We are to obey God or forfeit relationship with Him.

book chapter and verse where it says we forfeit salvation. MY bible doesn't have that false doctrine.

[Kansasdad]

The key question that should be asked is not if there if both faith and works play a part in salvation. They do. They question is what is the nature of the relationship.

In other words we would all agree that faith is a cause of salvation. The question is are works a cause of salvation, or an expected result of salvation.

I don't think anyone has said that works cause salvation. But I also don't think works is a result of salvation either. Works is believing and trusting in Jesus so much that you do what he tells you to do. If you are not doing what he tells you to do then you really are not trusting in him. So what kind of faith do you have?

God Bless,

Kansas Dad

Which seems to me to imply that they are an outgrowth of salvation, they do not cause it. Several passages tell us that one of the results of salvation is both the desire and ability to perform works that are pleasing to God. Before salvation we have neither the desire, or the ability to please Him

Only if you believe that salvation is a one time event on earth, which I do not. The only reason salvation is possible at all is because of Gods grace. We do not deserve it, but God gives us the opportunity anyway. I would say it is a growth created through God which transforms our very being, but it is a transformation and a process. It has a beginning for us but is continual in its process. I would also say that the works we perform because of our obedience to our faith in God play a part in that transformation. God uses our own actions to transform us to what he wants. Thus those works are a tool God uses to mold us.

[Eliyahuw]

exrockstar,

how can you forfeit a relationship that was NEVER your decision to have in the first place?

That relationship is from Him to you and not vice-versa.

Every relationship is based on at least two parties. If not, it is not a relationship. We were created specifically to have a relationship with God. A mutual, personal, covenantal, synergistic relationship. A relationship can be entered into by either party and can be broken by either party.

Your definition or explanation of one is far from the meaning of a relationship and far from being scriptural.

Are you trying to say that God is not powerful enough to keep us secure?? I mean thats what i read what you just posted as saying.

Let me remind you he PROMISED us, that we are secure.

Jhn 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Jhn 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.

Jhn 10:29 My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father's hand.

thad as great it was to reply to Eliy, you never posted any scripture to support what you say.

Obviously they are not contained in your bible. Better go back and reread.

whats the problem with you backing your claim with scripture??

you are a new a new creation in Jesus Christ unto good works.

This is what seperates you from an old creation (such as an atheist) that does good works also.

Atheists, Muslims, Buddhist or anyone that does not believe in Jesus Christ can also do good works too.

do you even know and understand what THROUGH faith means?

[Eliyahuw]

Everyone knows an atheist stands before the White Throne to be judged, and will bow before Christ before being cast into outer darkness.

Uhmm noooooo this is not so. as soon as you die, your judged and cast into hell or go to heaven. Once the Great white throne occurs, your delivered from hell and you will bow before christ before being cast into the lake of fire.

Hbr 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

[Floatingaxe]

Everyone knows an atheist stands before the White Throne to be judged, and will bow before Christ before being cast into outer darkness.

Uhmm noooooo this is not so. as soon as you die, your judged and cast into hell or go to heaven. Once the Great white throne occurs, your delivered from hell and you will bow before christ before being cast into the lake of fire.

Hbr 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Ummmm no. No one has been judged as yet. It is not the time yet.

[Eliyahuw]

Everyone knows an atheist stands before the White Throne to be judged, and will bow before Christ before being cast into outer darkness.

Uhmm noooooo this is not so. as soon as you die, your judged and cast into hell or go to heaven. Once the Great white throne occurs, your delivered from hell and you will bow before christ before being cast into the lake of fire.

Hbr 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Ummmm no. No one has been judged as yet. It is not the time yet.

Your arguing with scripture. the scripture says we are judged when we die. And it also says that those who are judged and their non believers they go to hell at death. And it says that hell will deliver them to bow before christ before being cast into the lake of fire. What part of that do you disagree with?? Remember its scripture

[exrockstar]

By default we are all going to the White throne (Rev 20:11). But acceptance of Jesus Christ we are justified and now go to the Bema seat (Eph 1:13). Only believers go to the Bema seat (1 Cor 3:11). We go to this place because of our acceptance in Jesus Christ.

1 Cor 3:11-13

From here you will be judged according to your works and be given rewards.

If you never lifted a finger to do any type of work then your working faith is

[exrockstar]

Everyone knows an atheist stands before the White Throne to be judged, and will bow before Christ before being cast into outer darkness.

Uhmm noooooo this is not so. as soon as you die, your judged and cast into hell or go to heaven. Once the Great white throne occurs, your delivered from hell and you will bow before christ before being cast into the lake of fire.

there isn't a scripture that talks about a "heaven or hell" judgement.

If you are saved you go to judgement. If you are not saved you go straight to hell

until the white throne.

For someone who never accepted Christ, what is there to judge upon his death?

feel free to post the "heaven or hell" judgement. ... 3xR0c|<stAr

Edited April 23, 2007 by exrockstar

[exrockstar]

d/p

Edited April 23, 2007 by exrockstar

[Kansasdad]

Everyone knows an atheist stands before the White Throne to be judged, and will bow before Christ before being cast into outer darkness.

Uhmm noooooo this is not so. as soon as you die, your judged and cast into hell or go to heaven. Once the Great white throne occurs, your delivered from hell and you will bow before christ before being cast into the lake of fire.

there isn't a scripture that talks about a "heaven or hell" judgement.

If you are saved you go to judgement. If you are not saved you go straight to hell

until the white throne.

For someone who never accepted Christ, what is there to judge upon his death?

feel free to post the "heaven or hell" judgement. ... 3xR0c|<stAr

A man can have faith and not know it. A person can accept Jesus and not know that they have. God can guide people even if they know not what it is called.

Just as all fell in Adam, so all were elevated to the supernatural order through Christ, as St. Paul teaches (Rom. v. 18; 1 Cor. xv. 22). This implies that the saving grace of Christ's Redemption is given to all men, illuminating their minds, and moving their wills, so that they turn to God as the True End of their being. If they are responsive to the divine inspiration, they receive sanctifying grace which remits their Original Sin, and if they offend grievously afterwards, the grace of perfect contrition.

Faith is not saying some magical words or having knowledge, It is a state of being.