Salvation question

[Scarletprayers]

But what of those who may not have a choice.

Example:

Maybe someone accepted Christ on an airplane before it crahsed and that person died.

Maybe someone accepted Christ on their death-bed.

What happens if someone by no fault of their own, accepts Christ but is not water immeresed for reasons beyond their control?

We have actually baptized people on their death bed. If our lives are to live by faith in Christ then we should have the same faith that he will provide a way like with the Ethiopeon Eunuch in the book of Acts. God provided water.

Dear brother/sister

Is your denominational background Roman Catholic because I sense in you a captivity to a doctrine that is of men and tradition and not of our Lord Jesus. Again, you have have missed the point. Let us substitute at every Scripture where the term "baptism" is used in tranaslation from Greek, the phrase "plunged into..." What did you plunge someone into on their death bed? That we have somehow elevated the term baptism to a rite instead of its original meaning - a plunging into - has caused huge misunderstanding. Therefore, go back to the Greek and understand what was meant by being baptised. I mean, I'm sure that when you ministered to someone on their death bed that you did not baptise them into fire - a Scripturally recognised baptism. So what did you baptise them into? Was it not into the Lord Jesus? And was not water just a symbol? Therefore, it is not the act of baptism/plunging into that is important of itself, but into what or whom one is being plunged into/baptised.

In Jesus

Ruth

For one account, we met a man who attended one of our non-member classes, liked what he heard and was baptized. The church later found that he had a brother living with him who was in bed dying from cancer. He was taught the gospel and accepted it. He was then taken to be fully baptized in water. When even had classes and worship at his house a few times so that he can participate. Not long after that he died.

I am not Roman Catholic. I am a member of the Church of Christ. If you want to find a little more about us and some history please read this link -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Christ

I am not caught up in a "doctrine of men", everything I have said I have given scriptural backing and I can give more.

Ah that explains it. my ex-Bil is COC and teaches that you lose your salvation every time you sin.

Well maybe some of them teach that, I never head it, they believe you can you loose your salvation, but only after giving up on Christ and return fully to a life of the flesh.

[Jesus*makes*me*smile]

The Bible says that men baptize us with water, but God baptizes us with the Holy Spirit, so technically, you don't need a water baptism to be saved - you need to be baptized by the Holy Spirit, which happens when you accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior and awknowledge the sacrifice that He made for you, and your fellow brothers and sisters.

[Scarletprayers]

Nope same one as you, have to be baptized to be saved, no music in worship, read the Gospel Advocate, Lords Supper every Sunday, no council or creed, ................................sorry to disappoint you, I'm sure you were hoping I was one of those "offshoots" Just don't happen to believe in all of it any more. And I've probably read all of those articles before you did, there as just as many well known and thought of scholars that can give reasons why baptism isn't necessary for salvation.

Silentprayer,

Do you know of anybody by the names of Tom Cornforth or Gary Preman?

Where are we going with this? I just don't believe you have to be baptized to be saved any more, although I prefer no instruments during singing, probably because I'm not used to it, I don't think having music in worship is going to send anybody to hell. Honey if your trying to bring me back to the fold, just hang it up, my family and the church I've gone to since Moses built the ark haven't manged and as much as I appreciate the fact that you actually seem to care, you wont be able to do what they haven't been able to do.

[Scarletprayers]

Nope same one as you, have to be baptized to be saved, no music in worship, read the Gospel Advocate, Lords Supper every Sunday, no council or creed, ................................sorry to disappoint you, I'm sure you were hoping I was one of those "offshoots" Just don't happen to believe in all of it any more. And I've probably read all of those articles before you did, there as just as many well known and thought of scholars that can give reasons why baptism isn't necessary for salvation.

Silentprayer,

Do you know of anybody by the names of Tom Cornforth or Gary Preman?

Where are we going with this? I just don't believe you have to be baptized to be saved any more, although I prefer no instruments during singing, probably because I'm not used to it, I don't think having music in worship is going to send anybody to hell. Honey if your trying to bring me back to the fold, just hang it up, my family and the church I've gone to since Moses built the ark haven't manged and as much as I appreciate the fact that you actually seem to care, you wont be able to do what they haven't been able to do.

So, I take that as a Yes?

Well then you take wrong, I've never heard of either name before. My Preacher have been Professors from David Lipscomb College.....................Kerce & Bunner and Cloud, Snow & Parker.....................conservative as you can get CoC, since your so worried about those 2 names up there I guess they aren't and you think I should have heard of them. Sorry to disappoint.

[Eliyahuw]

Tell me again that baptism doesn't save us. It says it "also" does because we are saved by grace through faith, obedience, baptism, repentance, etc.

NO it doesn't say that card. It specifically says we are saved By GRACE through faith. Not of works, or baptism.

Repentence is done when you accept christ as savior.

Is that all you base Christianity on?

I am not denying we are saved by grace through faith. Are you going to say that what is said in Mark 16:16 is false then when it says, "he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved"?

Grace is not the opening and closing of salvation. By the grace of God he allowed us to be saved, but now we must do it the way he intended.

Look at this verse -

Ephesians 2:4-5 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

Where else in the bible does it mention where we have been quickened together with Christ?

Romans 6:3-5 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

This says nothing about baptism being an outward sign of my being saved. Neither does Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38, 1 Peter 3:21, and neither does this one -

Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

All of these verses speaking of baptism also state either that it takes away our sins and/or saves us.

And that is false teaching. the Blood of Christ washes away the sins, not baptism.

[Scarletprayers]

You didn't offend me!

[exrockstar]

So my question is:

did this scripture apply to those that were baptized before Christ was baptized by John?

Think about it for a second. People were being baptized before Christ introduced himself to John the Baptist.

Were they "baptized into Christ?"

Scripturally I cannot answer that question because to my knowledge it is not addressed in the NT. John came on the scene preaching,

[exrockstar]

exrocker

there isn't a Holy Spirit involved in John's work for the one being baptized. The Holy Spirit did not get involved after the day

at Pentecost

Can you clarify this statement? Are you saying the Holy Spirit was not involved in the work of John the Baptist? Was not the Baptizer called by God to

[Floatingaxe]

exrocker

there isn't a Holy Spirit involved in John's work for the one being baptized. The Holy Spirit did not get involved after the day

at Pentecost

Can you clarify this statement? Are you saying the Holy Spirit was not involved in the work of John the Baptist? Was not the Baptizer called by God to

[exrockstar]

God does. did i not show you one?

technically it looks the same from the visual point of view. our eyes. the ceremony.

however, through scripture, this is where we are seeing the heavenly part.

Can you demonstrate where the ordinance of Christian baptism has ever been