AFaceInTheCrowd Posted January 20, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 1,138 Content Per Day: 0.34 Reputation: 9 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/26/2015 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/16/1969 Share Posted January 20, 2004 Mark 14:21...but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed!good were it for that man if he had never been born. Matt.27:3 says judas repented himself which means he fell remorse(watch how the word repented is used,remember GOD also "REPENTED"when He made man kind because of their wickedness,Gen6:6) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catsmeow Posted January 20, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 439 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 7,315 Content Per Day: 0.93 Reputation: 356 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/21/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted January 20, 2004 The Apostle Judas Iscariot became a murderer, and 1 John 3 tells us that no murderer has eternal life in him. True, Endure but....so was the Apostle Paul and many others who converted later on. In fact, Paul claims he was a chief of sinners... Yet God CHOSE to lavish His grace and mercy upon Paul. Judas was chosen before the foundation to fulfill his own purpose as the one who would betray the Savior. Ironically, again...the Apostle Peter also betrayed Jesus and denied him 3 times...yet God forgave him. When the bible says no murderer or adulterer or liar or sexually immoral person (et al) will enter the Kingdom, that would include all of us because we've at least "thought it" if we haven't "done it". So, it isn't saying that such people will never inherit the Kingdom; for that is what we once WERE. What does matter is a renewed mind; one that's repented from it's former ways. Certainly Judas could have repented and escaped such doom. Whether he did or not, I'm not sure. It doesn't sound too promising for him, poor guy. We know that Paul, a murderer, did in fact repent and so did many other sinners, including Mary Magdeline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWJ Posted January 20, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 22 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 455 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/28/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted January 20, 2004 The Apostle Judas Iscariot became a murderer, and 1 John 3 tells us that no murderer has eternal life in him. True, Endure but....so was the Apostle Paul and many others who converted later on. In fact, Paul claims he was a chief of sinners... Yet God CHOSE to lavish His grace and mercy upon Paul. Judas was chosen before the foundation to fulfill his own purpose as the one who would betray the Savior. Ironically, again...the Apostle Peter also betrayed Jesus and denied him 3 times...yet God forgave him. When the bible says no murderer or adulterer or liar or sexually immoral person (et al) will enter the Kingdom, that would include all of us because we've at least "thought it" if we haven't "done it". So, it isn't saying that such people will never inherit the Kingdom; for that is what we once WERE. What does matter is a renewed mind; one that's repented from it's former ways. Certainly Judas could have repented and escaped such doom. Whether he did or not, I'm not sure. It doesn't sound too promising for him, poor guy. We know that Paul, a murderer, did in fact repent and so did many other sinners, including Mary Magdeline. Amen, Cats! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wordsower Posted January 20, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 42 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,545 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 30 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/18/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/27/1968 Share Posted January 20, 2004 (Matthew 10:1-4; Mark 3:13-19; Luke 6:13-16), he was promised to sit on one of the twelve thrones to judge the twelve tribes of Israel (Matthew 19:27, 28), he cast out demons, healed the sick, and preached the Good News just as the other disciples did (Matthew 10:1; Mark 6:7; Luke 9:1), and he had the promise of the Spirit of the Father to speak through him, should he be brought before counsels (Matthew 10:17-20). Peter states that Judas, by transgression, fell (Acts 1:16, 17, 25). If being called "a devil" by Jesus makes one a devil from the beginning, then Peter was Judas' prince! Remember when Jesus called Peter "Satan" (Matthew 16:23)? Matt.10:1-4, so he had power to cast out demons in Jesus' name "Many will say to me Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your Name, and done many wonders in Your Name...I will declare to them, depart form Me, you who practice lawlessness!"Matt. 7:22,23 Jesus did not call Peter the devil, He was speaking to the devil that was putting those words in Peter's mouth. Paul killed Christians before he was converted. Peter denied Jesus after he was saved and remained saved. Jesus said no one can snatch them out of my hand, speaking of those that God gave to Him, John 10:28 Judas was the son of perdition John 17:12,--which is the same name used for the antichrist in 2 Thess. 2:3, no, I'm not saying he is the anti-christ, just that they have the same purpose, and they both appear good and are really not. John 8:42-44 shows that we are either of our Father God or the father of lies, the devil, you can't be both. We can each have our own convictions and it is really not a point of contention worth arguing about. Matt. 19:27,28 says you who have followed Me will judge the tribles of Israel--that includes all followers, followers don't leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LadyC Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 So do you think God "chose" incorrectly, mistakenly? If the saints are chosen by God....then why would He chose one who would "fall away"? God doesn't make mistakes. He chose Judas, knowing fully well that Judas would later betray Christ and turn his back on the truth. He was numbered among the apostles, he had obtained a part of the ministry of Christ, and he FELL by transgression. Fell. I just have no clue why some people can not just take God at His word. oh, and wordsower, yes, scripture says some will cast out demons in His name. but it doesn't say "like Judas did". it was, in fact, talking about the end times. i'm more inclined that those scriptures refer to many of our modern day false prophets and heretical preachers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SisterT-Enduring2TheEnd Posted January 20, 2004 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 97 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/07/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted January 20, 2004 Matt.10:1-4, so he had power to cast out demons in Jesus' name "Many will say to me Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your Name, and done many wonders in Your Name...I will declare to them, depart form Me, you who practice lawlessness!"Matt. 7:22,23 This passage doesn't prove that Judas was never saved. Jesus did not call Peter the devil, He was speaking to the devil that was putting those words in Peter's mouth. The passage says that Jesus said turned to PETER. It does NOT say that He was "speaking to the devil that was putting those words in Peter's mouth". Peter denied Jesus after he was saved and remained saved. Only because he repented of his denial. Jesus said no one can snatch them out of my hand, speaking of those that God gave to Him, John 10:28 Verse 27 says His sheep HEAR His voice and FOLLOW Him. Only those who HEAR and FOLLOW Jesus enjoy the promise of eternal life and not being snatched from the Father's hand. Judas was the son of perdition John 17:12,--which is the same name used for the antichrist in 2 Thess. 2:3, no, I'm not saying he is the anti-christ, just that they have the same purpose, and they both appear good and are really not. The "son of perdition" comment came well AFTER Judas betrayed Jesus so this doesn't prove that Judas was ALWAYS the son of perdition or that he was never saved. John 8:42-44 shows that we are either of our Father God or the father of lies, the devil, you can't be both. No argument there. Matt. 19:27,28 says you who have followed Me will judge the tribles of Israel--that includes all followers, followers don't leave. You haven't proven that followers don't leave. Scripture states that some will leave. I take Scripture for what it says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LadyC Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 man, i had really done some studying on this issue, and was in the middle of a lengthy post pointing out what i had learned, (some of which surprised me!) and i hit the wrong button and closed the window! i HATE it when that happens! so now i'm going to give the abbreviated version. first of all... let's discuss the angle of judas casting out demons. matt 7:22,23 "Many will say to me Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your Name, and done many wonders in Your Name...I will declare to them, depart form Me, you who practice lawlessness!" who is this talking to? it is talking to those who cast out demons in His name without having been given that authority! matt 10:1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric Posted January 21, 2004 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 2 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,073 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/02/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/10/1923 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Nicely documented LadyC, and you are right about having to find out whether or not Judas was forgiven. We will all have to wait and see. blessings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angels4u Posted January 21, 2004 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 55 Topic Count: 1,664 Topics Per Day: 0.20 Content Count: 19,764 Content Per Day: 2.38 Reputation: 12,164 Days Won: 28 Joined: 08/22/2001 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 21, 2004 What about the next information I found about it? Judas felt remorse, but remorse and repentance are not totally synonymous terms. The "theologically pure" definition of repentance is: to turn FROM sin TO God. It seems evident that Judas turned away from his sin of betrayal BUT -- did he then turn TO God? I think not. In Mt 27.4-5, Judas referred to Jesus as "innocent." Judas did not refer to Jesus as Savior, Lord, or God. ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LadyC Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 MATTHEW 27:1-5 When morning came, all the chief priests and the elders of the people took counsel against Jesus to put Him to death; and they bound Him and led Him away and delivered Him to Pilate the governor. When Judas, His betrayer, saw that He was condemned, he repented, and brought back the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and the elders, saying, "I have sinned in betraying innocent blood." They said, "What is that to us? See to it yourself." And throwing down the pieces of silver in the temple, he departed; and he went and hanged himself. you have a point angels... whom did judas repent to? did he repent to God, or did he repent to the chief priests and elders? maybe that's why the burning question remains, was he forgiven and did he enter heaven? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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