WORDS SHOW FORTH THE SPIRIT OF THE MAN

[Fewarechosen7F]

Anne,

Not sure I understand this, Care to explain a little further about the enlightenment ? Also, who those were that were ignorant of God's laws?

" After the fall of man, enlightenment even shined from within men who were ignorant of divine laws, but because they were lacking in knowledge about divine laws, they did not understand the importance of being educated concerning the things God."

Thanks,

Rick

Hello Rick,

First, please allow me to explain a little bit about myself.

For the past 12 years, I have lived Psalms 1:2. My every waking moment has been spent meditating in the scriptures of the Holy Bible.

I'm not begging anyone to believe that. Everyone will believe what they believe. I am simply stating the truth about myself, take it of leave it. My testimony is not about me anyway, but about the ways of the LORD.

But the scriptures reveal the truth of these verses, along with every other verse wrtten there, no matter who the man these verses discribe. It could be any one of us.

Ps 1:1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.

Ps 1:2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.

Ps 1:3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.

As to enlightenment when the scriptures are involved, be brave enough to use your own mind and think, rather than to swallow everything anyone says hook, line, and sinker, just because he has formal training. Become one with the scriptures, discussing every issue with each verse, diligently (continuously), until you know for yourself what is said there.

Every male Jew had to memorize the Torah by the time he was twelve years old, including Yeshua, regardless that others might try to make people believe that he never had to study. He memorized it the same as other boys who grew up in Israel, if for no other reason than because he was a Jew.

The written word is not some formal, cold, impersonal dogma that offers you the rules and then makes you figure out how to follow the rules on your own. No, the scriptures teach you how to follow the rules.

It's like a mother giving examples to her son, so that he can understand why she told him not to do something. Yeshua offered to us THE SAME RELATIONSHIP that he has with the Father. But you won't learn that from the people who work so hard to prove whether or not he was God, or whether or not the Holy Spirit was available to all men before Yeshua was crucified. They do that battle because they have failed to become part of the narration they read.

Enlightenment of God's divine laws does not come through academics, but through putting yourself in Peter's place, and allowing Yeshua to tell YOU, "Get thee behind me, Satan! You OFFEND ME! For you savor the things that be of men, and not those things that be of God." Enlightenment comes through putting yourself in Paul's place, and watching yourself do an about-face in Paul's footsteps.

What was Yeshua telling Peter anyway, except, "Line yourself up behind what I tell you, boy! "Cause you have'nt done it yet."

Enlightenment comes when you actually hear the Lord ask you, "How long will I be with you before you understand.

Ane the truth is that each of us MUST obtain this divine enlightenment. Because the only heirs in the kingdom of heaven aer EQUAL HEIRS WITH YESHUA.

So, with your getting, get wisdom to use what you learn. And get strength in God. Because when the Lord sends you forth to feed his sheep, others will ridicule you as you have seen done to me this day on this thread. But keep a forgiving heart toward them, and whether they hear or not, you will have avoide becoming bitter yourself.

[Guest Calamity]

As to enlightenment when the scriptures are involved, be brave enough to use your own mind and think, rather than to swallow everything anyone says hook, line, and sinker, just because he has formal training. Become one with the scriptures, discussing every issue with each verse, diligently (continuously), until you know for yourself what is said there.

First of all "enlightenment" is a typical New Age word, and something the Gnostics strove to achieve, or secret knowledge as it's probably called. Using your own 'mind' to understand God's Word is good in some ways, logical, reasoning ways, but the Holy Spirit is the One who leads you into Truth. Praying for knowlege and understanding of God's Word, not just using your mind and thinking. I do not know what you are saying about becoming 'one' with the Scriptures and discussing every issue with each verse. That sounds different.

I Cor 2

[11] For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

[12] Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

[13] Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with

spiritual.

Enlightenment comes when you actually hear the Lord ask you, "How long will I be with you before you understand.

Ane the truth is that each of us MUST obtain this divine enlightenment. Because the only heirs in the kingdom of heaven aer EQUAL HEIRS WITH YESHUA.

There's that word again. "Enlightenment". Maybe it's just the choice of word you happen to choose, but it's definitely a New Age word. Or Gnostic, whichever.

The truth that each of us MUST obtain this divine enlightenment.......

Romans 8

[16] The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

[17] And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

That doesn't say anything about having to have divine enlightenment. All you have to do is be a Christian, not have some special insight or knowledge that only is revealed to a few. That's Gnosticism again as far as I know.

So, with your getting, get wisdom to use what you learn. And get strength in God. Because when the Lord sends you forth to feed his sheep, others will ridicule you as you have seen done to me this day on this thread. But keep a forgiving heart toward them, and whether they hear or not, you will have avoide becoming bitter yourself.

Ridculing you, is not what is happening, as far as I can tell. Disagreeing with your view, is all. Actually, saying that what you are saying is not biblical, but that's not ridiculing, it's something you should think and pray about understanding, and the guidance of the Holy Spirit on.

[Guest dove2]

A Gnostic is concerned with thoughts and practices of various cults of the pre-Christian and even the early Christian era. They can be distinguished by believing that matter is evil and that we are free through the passing down of knowledge. Often known as,

[Rick]

Anne,

Thanks for responding to my question. I appreciate your taking the time to respond. I respect your right to believe as you do, and admire your desire to seek out the truth. I too must say that I saw things in the post that set off bells and whistles to me while reading. I also saw someone who has a desire to love God and live for Him. I believe your desire is sincere in knowing the truth, and will not ridicule you for stating what you believe, and which I am sure the other members that responded will agree was not their intent as well. Sometimes disagreement over a subject matter can be seen as a personal attack against us because we have accepted it as truth, and it has become a part of us.

The replies are not attacks against you, but were only responses to the substance of the post, with which they disagreed. It is difficult to accept that there might be something wrong with something that we may have said, or written, since it tends to make us feel inadequate or seen as less than we feel we should be, when othersd disagree with it. Or that maybe we feel we are not accepted based on our understanding of what we hold to. But I can assure you that is not the case here. We only desire that the truth be known. With so much error in the world today, and so many embracing whatever comes along, it is sometimes necessary to question, and through the love of the truth challenge what we see as error.

Each of us may see and understand something that others may not agree with or accept. But the opportunity to have dialogue must remain open in order to search out the truth together, with the hope that the enlightening we receive is only from God's word, and in the context that He intended. I myself have to be very cautious and keep in mind that satan himself appears as an angel of light. He brings illumination also. But in a manner that changes or distorts the truth of God's word. It is for this reason alone that we all have to be willing to learn and seek out the truth as God revealed, and not be led astray by satan , who is very adept at leading astray and causing division.

With this said, I again thank you for responding and hope that discussion can remain open among all members in searching out the truth, and that we can establish in our hearts and minds that the Word of God is the final authority in all matters, and rightly divide the truth.

Rick

[Fewarechosen7F]

Hello Cats,

Few: You're a little over my head, too.

It is realy not that hard to follow.

I have a hard time taking every word literally. You should hear my husband and I when we're "horsing around" with each other.

And you were in the spirit of play, horsing around.

Men refer to the spirit in which they do things as emotions. But when angry words are spoken, they are spoken in the soirit of anger. When jealous words are spoken they are spoken in the spirit of jealousy. The same for love; compassion; hate; resentment; arrogance; and the list goes on.

There'd have to be some provision for context of words...For example: Play.

In the course of everyday life, each of those spirits is the context in which is spoken.

When we're little children, we invent ourselves using words.

Now, as adults we still play. Play suggests that we are normal, healthy, balanced individuals.

I didn't mean to imply otherwise. Even Yeshua had a little fun when Peter walked on water. But when it comes to the weightier matters of understanding the authority given to us by the Master, we had better be looking to the Master, and not be blinded by man's theologies.

I don't think we can ever be too dogmatic about the "words" we speak because you'd be living your whole life walking on egg shells. It's too easy to go to extremes.

Did you know that a synonym for dogmatic is "dictatorial"? I really am not trying to dictate to anybody. But people really do need to wake up and realize that Yeshua did not teach by quoting the scriptures, the way religion does. Yeshua taught by revealing what God had taught him. The only time he quoted scripture was when the hypocrites challenged him. And then he quoted.

At the sermon on the mount, Yeshua was talking to the disciples, the same way you and I are talking here. (Except our "lips" are fingers )

I believe it's not so much the "words" we speak as the motives behind the words.

One can speak flattering words but their intent be devious. It's the human heart God weighs and considers. JMO.

And that is exactly what I thought, until the Lord impressed upon my conscience that I would never understand how the condition of my own heart had DEAFENED ME to the words that had been coming out of my own mouth, and what HE thinks about that, while clinging to my own interpretation.

You have nothing but my confession that I fought this understanding tooth and nail, and the Lord kept drawing me back to it. And I can't blame you if you don't want to believe that what I have said in the starting post is true.

After all, who am I? I never went to bible school. Didn't have bible collage or simenary or whatever else they call it. But I know who he is, and that he taught me this by the Spirit of God. And I know all the chastisement I went through because I wouldn't listen, when I didn't understand that it was chastisement.

[Guest shadow2b]

-The words of those languages are spirit, because every time man opens his mouth to speak, he sends the spirit that is in the words he speaks out to do a work. The life each man lives each day is in the words he speaks beforehand, because he speaks whatever is in his heart at the moment he is speaking. Life and death are in the power of the tongue, and the power of the tongue is the word on the tongue.

-Few -----I am sorry but this is "NEW-AGE-phylosophy"--doctrine--teaching-----IT is a"perversion" of

-GOD'S WORD---MAN does NOT HAVE a "creative-force"in the words he speaks!!!!MAN--WE--YOU--

-ME-Patsy---calamity--ron--WE do NOT create something every time we speak a word!!!!!Please

-believe me, I am NOT trying to ridicule you or trying to make you look silly...I do NOT like to tell

-anyone what they are teaching is WRONG, but I am WARNED by GOD to sound the alarm when the

-enemy{false-wrong-unBiblical-teachings are being promoted}Ezekiel.33.vss.1.thru.9---A watchman

-GOD-BLESS-ALL-TRUTH-SEEKERS----------------Gary--

[Fewarechosen7F]

Rick,

I too must say that I saw things in the post that set off bells and whistles to me while reading.  I also saw someone who has a desire to love God and live for Him. 

Just try to remember that because we strive to serve God to the best of our ability, we are dealing with the spiritual things of God. Most people overlook that. And in learning the spiritual things of God, it is not always the person who is speaking, or posting in this case, who is the offender. I am neither accusing you, nor defending myself in that statement, but merely asking you to also search yourself while you search me for the reason the alarms sounded.

Sometimes disagreement over a subject matter can be seen as a personal attack against us because we have accepted it as truth, and it has become a part of us.

Rick, I'v raised 13 childen, (not all of them my own), and have helped to raise 11 grandchildren. I am very familiar with the personal attack thing, along with quite a few more such attitudes. Doesn't phase me personally, 'cause I don't look at it as personal attack.

But we are all Christian people here, and all of us should make every effort to sound like Christians at all times. To see what I am referring to, try putting yourself in the place of the next poster (other than myself) who posts something that the greater percent of the body does not agree with, and see if you can also test the spirit of the majority while testing the spirit of the one they disagree with.

It is difficult to accept that there might be something wrong with something that we may have said, or written, since it tends to make us feel inadequate or seen as less than we feel we should be, when othersd disagree with it.

I don't feel inadiquate. I don't feel seen less than I should be. I don't feel unaccepted. And the things that I have said are only wrong in the minds of those who have sifted it through their own doctrines, rather than having sifted it through the scriptures themselves.

We only desire that the truth be known.  With so much error in the world today, and so many embracing whatever comes along, it is sometimes necessary to question,  and through the love of the truth challenge what we see as error. 

I totally agree. And the truth is that each of us has that part of the truth that the Lord has given to each. I have driven a truck with my husband for a living for the past 10 years. I average listening to the entire bible every 52 waking hours. That is 25 times per year. And I assure you, Rick, when anyone hears the word of God that consistantly, they have foud the vestiblue of heaven.

But the opportunity to have dialogue must remain open in order to search out the truth together, with the hope that the enlightening we receive is only from God's word, and in the context that He intended.

with the hope that the enlightening we receive is only from God's word, and in the context that He intended

But most slam the door on this, because it does not agree with the doctrines they have already been taught.

[Fewarechosen7F]

Anne,

I really do not want to offend you, but I feel that your interpretation of John 1:1-5 is fraught with errors. I hope you take my responses as exhortation and correction, rather than trying to pick you apart. I understand that you are seeking enlightenment from God's word. But I see a couple of things you are saying have been the cause of leading some astray in the past.

Jo 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

God is spirit. The origin of all things was spirit, the audible word that God spoke in the beginning. And every word that God spoke was in agreement with the heart of God, and every word that God spoke was God in action, Spirit in action.

The purpose of John

[Guest Calamity]

Fewarechosen:

Men refer to the spirit in which they do things as emotions. But when angry words are spoken, they are spoken in the soirit of anger. When jealous words are spoken they are spoken in the spirit of jealousy. The same for love; compassion; hate; resentment; arrogance; and the list goes on.

Many of the things you listed as "in the spirit of..." are called works of the flesh in the Bible, not "spirits of":

Gal. 5

[19] Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

[20] Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

[21] Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

[22] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

[23] Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

However, we are told what the fruit of the Spirit is. The others are called works of the FLESH, not spirits.

or, as it's stated in the NIV:

"...sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like.....fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control."

[Guest Calamity]

Dove, thanks for the clarification on New Age and Gnosticism. I know there are "Gnostic Christians", who have many beliefs that parallel many New Age teachings, but somehow do not seem to realize it.