Head "OF" or head "OVER" .....

[apothanein kerdos]

If the husband was created as the delegated authority over the wife then how come God wouldn't mention it at creation? Did Adam have no idea that he was given authority over his wife in Eden?

kephale?

The results of creation don't matter considering man fell.

So God did not create man to have authority over the woman? It wasn't God plan or DESIGN? God didn't delegate authority over all creation including the woman to the man after he was created?

kephale? Anything on that yet?

[firehill]

If the husband was created as the delegated authority over the wife then how come God wouldn't mention it at creation? Did Adam have no idea that he was given authority over his wife in Eden?

kephale?

The results of creation don't matter considering man fell.

So God did not create man to have authority over the woman? It wasn't God plan or DESIGN? God didn't delegate authority over all creation including the woman to the man after he was created?

kephale? Anything on that yet?

Not YET. But at least we agree that God didn't CREATE man to have authority over the woman neither the woman to be under the man.

[apothanein kerdos]

If the husband was created as the delegated authority over the wife then how come God wouldn't mention it at creation? Did Adam have no idea that he was given authority over his wife in Eden?

kephale?

The results of creation don't matter considering man fell.

So God did not create man to have authority over the woman? It wasn't God plan or DESIGN? God didn't delegate authority over all creation including the woman to the man after he was created?

kephale? Anything on that yet?

Not YET. But at least we agree that God didn't CREATE man to have authority over the woman neither the woman to be under the man.

Right. I agree with that. I also agree that in eternity it wont' be that way either.

But all of that is completely, 100% irrelevant.

[Emily~Anne]

If the husband was created as the delegated authority over the wife then how come God wouldn't mention it at creation? Did Adam have no idea that he was given authority over his wife in Eden?

kephale?

The results of creation don't matter considering man fell.

So God did not create man to have authority over the woman? It wasn't God plan or DESIGN? God didn't delegate authority over all creation including the woman to the man after he was created?

kephale? Anything on that yet?

Not YET. But at least we agree that God didn't CREATE man to have authority over the woman neither the woman to be under the man.

No, God created woman because he said it s not good for man to be alone, and so he created woman as a help meet.

[OopsMartin]

"There are those who believe Christian marriage is one of male dominance, the husband being the authority of wife and children in a rank and file arrangement. In such a picture those under are at the mercy of the temerament and character of the authority."

There may be some that feel this way, but IMO you have ignored not only the post but also Scripture. Male dominance is not the issue that I see. What I do see is that there is no agreement concerning God"s delagating authority, and the husband being one whom God gave authority. Why is this? Brother, I am not attempting to be negative or rude in any type of way...but what foundation can you lay? You have not dealt with any Scriptures execept the ones that you choose; in which you are taking someone elses ideas and adding a little bit of your flavor.

How about we do this. Let us look at the Word of God and allow His Word to do the talking. At the present time I can careless for anyone outside of this forums thought concerning this subject. We all have the Spirit of God...correct? I say let us trust God, and His word, not some other authors, or so called "experts" on the topic. Let us go to the One who is the Expert and allow His voice to saturate our ears. Can we deal with the Word, and not just parts but the FULL WORD? What does God have to say concerning His deglated authority? We all may come out with more than we bargined for.

I do thank you for your time and consideration.

Your Brother

Ruck, I appreciate the conciliatory tone of your post. And I do have every intention of discussing that section of this discussion.

But it's like this. Most of the time when I try to discuss these issues, people hop about all over the place so that one cannot lay the foundation of their thinking. And then they want to lambast them with so many things at once it's impossible to lay things out logically. And then people want it all said quickly so they can disagree quickly. It's not discussion IMO. Do you build a house on two poles or four (actually many). Do you build the house half on the dirt and half on concrete? Do you leave off the floor in your hurry to get the roof up? You cannot see the foundation until I have laid it.

I am quoting other people who have studied these issues and manage to say things that I believe and agree with succinctly. And of course I'm choosing the Scriptures I want to talk about

[OopsMartin]

If the husband was created as the delegated authority over the wife then how come God wouldn't mention it at creation? Did Adam have no idea that he was given authority over his wife in Eden?

kephale?

The results of creation don't matter considering man fell.

So God did not create man to have authority over the woman? It wasn't God plan or DESIGN? God didn't delegate authority over all creation (including the woman) to the man after he was created?

Well I'm gladd to see that there is a little agreement here.

[apothanein kerdos]

And I'm discussing the foundations that hierarchalists and authoritarians use to lay that doctrine on.

No you're not. You're creating a straw-man. This entire thread is a sham.

[firehill]

If the husband was created as the delegated authority over the wife then how come God wouldn't mention it at creation? Did Adam have no idea that he was given authority over his wife in Eden?

kephale?

The results of creation don't matter considering man fell.

So God did not create man to have authority over the woman? It wasn't God plan or DESIGN? God didn't delegate authority over all creation including the woman to the man after he was created?

kephale? Anything on that yet?

Not YET. But at least we agree that God didn't CREATE man to have authority over the woman neither the woman to be under the man.

No, God created woman because he said it s not good for man to be alone, and so he created woman as a help meet.

I agree though I wouldn't say that the human's aloneness was the sole purpose for her creation since God ordained their creation in His image in Genesis 1:26 etc.

[firehill]

And I'm discussing the foundations that hierarchalists and authoritarians use to lay that doctrine on.

No you're not. You're creating a straw-man. This entire thread is a sham.

Ask Neo, OC and Wayne Grudem and company. They all and many others believe that God created the man with authority over the woman and that woman was created under him. Indeed they believe that sequential creation of the two (even 1 Timothy mentions the man being created first...!) and the woman's derivation (1 Co 11 mentions that) are main bricks in the foundation they create for gender hierarchy.

[apothanein kerdos]

And I'm discussing the foundations that hierarchalists and authoritarians use to lay that doctrine on.

No you're not. You're creating a straw-man. This entire thread is a sham.

Ask Neo, OC and Wayne Grudem and company. They all and many others believe that God created the man with authority over the woman and that woman was created under him.

Their argument, however, doesn't rest on that. It's an independent theory to answer "why" mean have authority over women. It's a disagreement among complimentarians over why man has authority over women. I disagree with Grudem and others on the "why," but I agree that males, in marriage and the church, have authority over women.

The point is therefore irrelevant.