Head "OF" or head "OVER" .....

[apothanein kerdos]

If we cannot understand what God is saying in Genesis 1 & 2 about creation of man and woman and their relationship then I don't think we can understand the rest of what is said. Man and woman 101 is found in Genesis 1 & 2. How can we understand 1 Timothy 2 without comphrehending creation of them for example?

Easy, the Fall.

Like I said, Genesis 1 and 2 are irrelevant after Genesis 3.

Neither you or Oops could deal with the kephale argument, so you resulted to this strategy.

[Emily~Anne]

Alot changed after the fall, so I don't think we should have tunnel vision on what it was like in the garden of Eden. It is essential to be able to discuss the fall in this debate.

[Emily~Anne]

'OopsMartin'

And if you have a viewpoint of the fall, especially 3:16, I'm sure they might like to hear it. that is where I'm going next. It doesn't matter if we don't agree exactly, that just makes it interesting. I'm of the view that the only things cursed were the serpent and the ground, while the rest is an expansion of that and their death judgement for eating of the tree, and will be expanding on that in detail. I'll be using some of Dr. Joy Elasky Flemings and Rev. Bruce E. Fleming's work on that.

There you have it folks OopsMartin's view that he holds goes in direct contradiction to what the Holy Bible says so plainly and forthrightly. I guess his "assumptions" is higher than the knowledge God gave us of the actual account that took place. I guess also the pain in childbirth and working by the sweat of the brow and woman's desire would be toward thier husbands and men ruling over and all them things which was part of the curse is just an expansion from the original curse on the serpent and the ground and of course death came only cause they ate of the tree.

This should be considered in the debate.

[firehill]

If we cannot understand what God is saying in Genesis 1 & 2 about creation of man and woman and their relationship then I don't think we can understand the rest of what is said. Man and woman 101 is found in Genesis 1 & 2. How can we understand 1 Timothy 2 without comphrehending creation of them for example?

Easy, the Fall.

i understand that such is your argument but Genesis 3 hasn't been discussed yet, IN this thread.

Like I said, Genesis 1 and 2 are irrelevant after Genesis 3.

That's around the corner to be discussed.

Neither you or Oops could deal with the kephale argument, so you resulted to this strategy.

No the foundation hasn't been laid yet which is why you make this assumption. And it's not a carefule one at that.

[firehill]

Alot changed after the fall, so I don't think we should have tunnel vision on what it was like in the garden of Eden. It is essential to be able to discuss the fall in this debate.

It is ESSENTIAL and we are going to do so.

[apothanein kerdos]

Alot changed after the fall, so I don't think we should have tunnel vision on what it was like in the garden of Eden. It is essential to be able to discuss the fall in this debate.

It is ESSENTIAL and we are going to do so.

LOL

Because you can't respond to the kephale argument.

The OP was all about kephale, he got it handed to him on a silver platter, so he switched and decided to go after the most irrelevant argument in the whole spectrum of the discussion.

Fact is, we'll never get to that point because neither one of you want it to get to that point - you'll lose if you do.

[firehill]

Alot changed after the fall, so I don't think we should have tunnel vision on what it was like in the garden of Eden. It is essential to be able to discuss the fall in this debate.

It is ESSENTIAL and we are going to do so.

LOL

Because you can't respond to the kephale argument.

The OP was all about kephale, he got it handed to him on a silver platter, so he switched and decided to go after the most irrelevant argument in the whole spectrum of the discussion.

Fact is, we'll never get to that point because neither one of you want it to get to that point - you'll lose if you do.

You've been told repeatedly that we'll be going over and discussing the kephale argument. Even in 1 Co 11 where kephale is spoken of, guess what? CREATION of the woman is mention therefore we should continue with man and woman 101 that is, Genesis 1 & 2.

The argument is not irrelevant to OC, Neo and others of the same view of creational gender roles or creation hierarchy.

One of the most debated passages is 1 Timothy 2 which speaks of the man's CREATION and the woman being deceived therefore even in order for us to get to that point we need to understand their creation and relationship to eachother at that time in God's design.

[apothanein kerdos]

Alot changed after the fall, so I don't think we should have tunnel vision on what it was like in the garden of Eden. It is essential to be able to discuss the fall in this debate.

It is ESSENTIAL and we are going to do so.

LOL

Because you can't respond to the kephale argument.

The OP was all about kephale, he got it handed to him on a silver platter, so he switched and decided to go after the most irrelevant argument in the whole spectrum of the discussion.

Fact is, we'll never get to that point because neither one of you want it to get to that point - you'll lose if you do.

You've been told repeatedly that we'll be going over and discussing the kephale argument. Even in 1 Co 11 where kephale is spoken of, guess what? CREATION of the woman is mention therefore we should continue with man and woman 101 that is, Genesis 1 & 2.

The argument is not irrelevant to OC, Neo and others of the same view of creational gender roles or creation hierarchy.

One of the most debated passages is 1 Timothy 2 which speaks of the man's CREATION and the woman being deceived therefore even in order for us to get to that point we need to understand their creation and relationship to eachother at that time in God's design.

All of that should read, "I [firehill] have found an excuse to avoid the kephale argument."

[Emily~Anne]

AK has a point. How are we going to discuss the 'head' issue if we dont first figure out what kephale means? Wouldnt that be kinda like chasing our tails and never getting anywhere?

[Neopatriarch]

The argument is not irrelevant to OC, Neo and others of the same view of creational gender roles or creation hierarchy.

While I believe in the prefall headship of Adam, I still think we should focus on the exegesis of Ephesians 5. I don't want to follow a zillion red herrings.

-Neopatriarch