Seatbelt bill hits bump in the road

[Marnie]

Your emphasis on "personal liberty" at the expense of lives is deplorable...

Wow! Are you living in the wrong country!

Were all these emphases on "personal liberty" deplorable as well??

A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. Edward Abbey

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is the highest political end. Lord Acton

Liberty is the prevention of control by others. This requires self-control and, therefore, religious and spiritual influences; education, knowledge, well-being. Lord Acton

Liberty cannot be preserved without a general knowledge among the people, who have... a right, an indisputable, unalienable, indefeasible, divine right to that most dreaded and envied kind of knowledge, I mean the characters and conduct of their rulers. John Adams

Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. Johan Adams

You have rights antecedent to all earthly governments: rights that cannot be repealed or restrained by human laws; rights derived from the Great Legislator of the universe. John Adams

There is danger from all men. The only maxim of a free government ought to be to trust no man living with power to endanger the public liberty. John Adams

Among the natural rights of the colonists are these: first, a right to life; secondly, to liberty; thirdly to property; together with the right to support and defend them in the best manner they can. Samuel Adams

Give me liberty or give me death! It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace-- but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death! Patrick Henry, March 23, 1775

And to that I add: Hallelujah!!

[buckthesystem]

Your emphasis on "personal liberty" at the expense of lives is deplorable...

Wow! Are you living in the wrong country!

Were all these emphases on "personal liberty" deplorable as well??

A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. Edward Abbey

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is the highest political end. Lord Acton

Liberty is the prevention of control by others. This requires self-control and, therefore, religious and spiritual influences; education, knowledge, well-being. Lord Acton

Liberty cannot be preserved without a general knowledge among the people, who have... a right, an indisputable, unalienable, indefeasible, divine right to that most dreaded and envied kind of knowledge, I mean the characters and conduct of their rulers. John Adams

Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. Johan Adams

You have rights antecedent to all earthly governments: rights that cannot be repealed or restrained by human laws; rights derived from the Great Legislator of the universe. John Adams

There is danger from all men. The only maxim of a free government ought to be to trust no man living with power to endanger the public liberty. John Adams

Among the natural rights of the colonists are these: first, a right to life; secondly, to liberty; thirdly to property; together with the right to support and defend them in the best manner they can. Samuel Adams

Give me liberty or give me death! It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace-- but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death! Patrick Henry, March 23, 1775

And to that I add: Hallelujah!!

And I've got to add another Hallelujah to all that!

One thing that is absolutely despicable is control-freakism and government and civil servants being patronising and treating people like mentally deficient children in order to gain money, under the guise of alltruism.

America was built on the ideal of individual freedom, we must never forget that.

I still maintain that there is a very "short step" between "the seatbelt law" and the "compulsory to wear a scarf on windy days" law (the same control-freakism disguised as alltruism) and if the "scarf" law would really be "laughed at before it even reached committee discussion", then why was the the "seatbelt law" also laughed at in the same proposed way? After all they are the same thing. It could be said that "policemen would feel silly walking up to someone in the street and saying "now have you got you scarf tied up, it is quite cold today?" or stopping a car and saying the same thing. But really I don't see any difference between that and a policeman stopping a car and saying "now did you have your seatbelt done up?".

For the former the said policeman might get a few comments like "what are you? My mother?". Well maybe we should start saying that when we are "stopped for a seatbelt check".

[Scarletprayers]

When we were kids..............you could ride your bike, just jump on it and go................now kids have to have helmets and knee and elbow pads..................... whats next?

[buckthesystem]

Knee and elbow pads are not compulsory, are they?

Is there really a law with regard to that?

[Scarletprayers]

Knee and elbow pads are not compulsory, are they?

Is there really a law with regard to that?

mmmmmmmmmmm not sure, helmets are............but I don't think the pads are.

[georgesbluegirl]

I was just in NH....one of my favorite states. They stick to their guns, guys - "live free or die!" (Best state motto. Ever.)

Seriously though, I'm a bit torn on the seatbelt issue. On the one hand, duh. It saves countless numbers of lives. On the other hand, honestly? Adults should be given the freedom of choice, and should also be smart enough to buckle up. The same for helmet laws. (This is the libertarian in me rearing its head.)

The only way I can see a case being made for seatbelt enforcement for the public good beyond the individual level is - sorry - for the hazard that your body may create for others in a serious accident should you not be buckled in. It's a grotesque way to consider it...but who knows? I have done absolutely zero research on that so that's just a shot in the dark. Feel free to correct, support or otherwise enlighten me.

Helmet, carseat, seatbelt etc. laws for kids are obviously another issue. If you're a minor, your decisions aren't legally your own (in general) so...legislate safety, by all means!

[georgesbluegirl]

There are also many more cars on the road now and very different traffic patterns in many places. The "then and now" comparison might be seductive, but it's not direct.

[Scarletprayers]

Right B! They keep coming at it from the "compassion" angle............well people get hurt..............name me something, anything that you can do that people can't get hurt or sick from????

My sister had to take a certain medication every day...........it was wonderful she was freed from a problem that curtailed so many of her activities, yet, the same medication cause some other people problems............so they pulled the medication from the market, it was helping thousands but because of a few????????? What kinda sense does that make? NONE!

[Ovedya]

I can see the benefit of mandatory seatbelt laws as they pertain to children. And maybe that's the real reason it's mandatory for all occupants of vehicles now. It's just safer if it's required.

But the problem is that these kinds of laws are designed in such a way that they infringe upon my personal liberties. In our state they are running commercials that say, "click it or ticket." And there are signs on the side of the roads and even billboards that warn drivers not to forget to wear their seatbelts. It's overkill. My tax dollars are funding that program here.

There are traffic laws regarding running red lights, for speeding, and for jaywalking. Each of those situations involve other people. If I run a red light I could hit someone. If I drive too fast I increase the risk of crashing into another person. If I jaywalk I might cause someone to swerve to avoid me and hit a poll, or another person. But whether I wear a seatbelt or not does not affect another driver, and does not place anyone else (Other than myself) in harm's way.

[Scarletprayers]

There are also many more cars on the road now and very different traffic patterns in many places. The "then and now" comparison might be seductive, but it's not direct.

Sorry I disagree......................its just another excuse to be used by Big Brother to make further inroads into my rights, which they are seriously eroding with barley a peep from the general public.