The writings of Paul

[DarkNebulaWelder]

Hey, everyone;

Lately, I've been reading through the writings of Paul, and find myself struggling to fully comprehend them. Instead of enjoying a fluid reading of these texts, I find myself having to stop 2 or 3 times and re-read what it was I had just read, with little increased understanding.

Now, I realize that Paul was an intellectual man, but for some reason, I have trouble deciphering what it is that is behind many of his thoughts. I have tried reading the commentary, and referring to other passages, but I still find myself struggling for illumination.

Has anyone else here had this problem? Can anyone recommend a good commentary? Would this help?

Any feedback would be appreciated. Thanks so much

I could happily read and re-read Romans all day and every day and still get something more from it! As AK says, I too believe that he was probably the greatest philosopher who ever lived. And if you have ever read any philosophy books, you will know that they are not the most accessible of writings. What I found - looking back 30 or more years - is that as I read the Holy Spirit would illuminate just ONE thought spread across maybe three or four verses. I didn't try to understnd any more than that. Over many years the Holy Spirit has graciouly revealed to me more and more of God's thoughts penned by His servant Paul. Please, do not be discouraged, just take what little you can for the moment and believe that it is THAT particular little bit that the Lord wants you to understand for the present time. Gradually He will increase your understanding. It is sometimes difficult in today's society of instant gratification to accept that sanctification (and all that it entails, including understanding the deeper things of God's Word) is a lifelong process not an instant solution. "Little by little, line upon line, precept upon precept." I think that's found in Proverbs somewhere, and I hope I've quoted it right. But that's the Word that the Lord has given to me, for you, at this moment.

May God richly bless you as you read His Word,

In Jesus,

Ruth

....and it is a word well-received, Ruth.

I do believe that one's understanding of Scripture is 90% spiritual revelation by God, and that's how I attempt to read when I pick up my Bible for devotions. I also find that it helps to pray before reading.

I'm trying not to throw specifics out here, as I realize it's probably best inquired of in the Doctrinal thread, but one verse that immediately comes to mind is 2 Cor. 13:7. What does he mean by "disqualified," and why should a church's actions "disqualify" Paul's ministry? It seems like he is saying his ministry is only validated by the way a church receives it. Am I wrong? I don't really get it.

[DarkNebulaWelder]

Why does everyone keep saying that Paul's writings are simple, when Peter - who had access to Paul - said they were extremely difficult to understand?

Do we possess some type of knowledge that Peter didn't have?

The flesh is the only thing that struggles with Paul's teachings of God's Amazing Grace. Peter was a Jew, was he not? It's always hard to shed what you've been taught all your years in your youth in "religion" and/or the "Law"... As long as you struggle to insert the teachings of the Law into what Paul taught, you will find them (Pauls writings) difficult, if not impossible to understand...

Not trying to be dogmatic... It's just that's the only way I can explain it...

So should we throw out the epistles of Peter? Should we ignore them because he was a Jew? Paul was a Jew too...more so than Peter was!

What?

Essentially, what I'm saying is, you're wrong. Peter said Paul is difficult to understand and that the uneducated are the ones who misinterpret him. I'll trust Peter far more than I'll trust your whole "grace" theory (which, honestly, makes no sense).

If someone is going to understand Paul's writings, they're going to have to get commentaries, they're going to have to think, they're going to have to explore, and they're going to have to accept that Paul's writings are confusing and difficult to understand.

I understand that's your opinion, and you are very set in your ways... I respectfully dis-agree... Enjoy your difficulty!

I think we are all convinced of the positions we hold. That is not a character flaw. I think AK asks a legitimate question that should be answered rather than dismissed. The passage he cited seems to indicate that even the Apostle Peter acknowledged that some of Paul's writings had some pretty good depth to them. He said that they were so difficult, that certain people were finding it easy to manipulate them (because every one was struggling with them). How do you deal with that passage in terms of the place you have landed? I think that is a fair question.

Don't you think that the Lord used Paul's ministry, and "difficult" writings, because He WANTED people to think? If he didn't he could have recruited someone with a more simplistic mindframe, but for some reason, Paul was chosen.

That's just my opinion.

[DarkNebulaWelder]

Paul's writings are more simple when we read them one chapter at a time, one passage at a time, . . .

But if you try to read the entire letter at one time, the way they were originally given (not separated by chapter and verse), you would greater appreciate the complexity of the matter. For Paul's thoughts have a tendancy to drift and vary from one thought and subject to another. It's like he wants to explain one point with another, but then he has to explain the example, which itself needs an explanation, . . . and then he finally gets back to the subject he started with. By that time you have forgotten he was trying to make that point to begin with.

Ya...I notice that he repeats himself a lot, like he is trying to solidify the idea.

[DarkNebulaWelder]

I've noticed a lot of people in this thread equating Scripture reading with "emotional connectedness."

I'm not trying to be vociferous here, but personally, I think it's unwise to interpret the Scriptures from a purely "emotional" standpoint, although I do agree that God's Word DOES have the ability to stir up emotions.

I DO think that there is an intellectual equivalent to Paul's writings not found elsewhere in Scripture. You can tell just by reading them that Paul spoke from the heart, as well as the mind. I do know that he was intelligent, and I think that his intelligence was one of the main reasons God chose him. He was also emotional, which trips me out, because judging from his anti-prosyletic actions BEFORE God spoke to him, you'd think he was the most calloused man on the planet.

Many of his letters are cerebral in nature, and the thing I love about his writings was that he paired theological depth with practical application. They weren't just some intellectual treatises on Christianity....they were BRUTALLY personal ideas with fundamental truths. I just love the heart that he had for the church. He seemed to be so full of love, and concern for the spiritual welfare of God's children.

There's no denying that there's an emotional aspect to his writings, but there is also an intellectual one. I really think they are intended to make the believer THINK about his/her walk with the Lord. Personally, I try to put personal emotion aside and let the Lord speak to me on whatever level He wants.

I don't think that emotional connectedness is the most important basis on which to interpret Scripture. I think we are supposed to spiritually and intellectually decipher what the Bible means to us. Paul was writing to an entire subset of people, who no doubt interpreted his words differently.

I also think it's important to get the background of the text, and just what it was that motivated Paul to write.

[Motivated By Grace]

I also think it's important to get the background of the text, and just what it was that motivated Paul to write.

[DarkNebulaWelder]

I also think it's important to get the background of the text, and just what it was that motivated Paul to write.

LOL....I get 3 thumbs up?! I don't even HAVE 3 thumbs!!!!

Too cool

[Guest shiloh357]

I also think it's important to get the background of the text, and just what it was that motivated Paul to write.

The determinging factor in any passage is the intent of the author. It helps immensely to know what Paul's intentions were and the message/main idea he was trying to get across in a given passage.

The problem is that so many people approach the Bible with an agenda. They approach the Bible sujbectively with the intent on proving a particular belief they hold dear, or to prove that their particular demonination's stance is the correct one.

It is when you open your eyes, open your ears and open your heart to the author's intention, that you are going to get a clearer picture of what was meant. This requires some study and careful deliberate reading.

As EricH said, there are those who are anointed by God and are given to the rest of us, to teach the Word of God, and you would do well to take advantage of that gift.