Were there 2 liars at the fall or just 1?

[JB Horn]

If she was quoting from God maybe you can point me to the verses. That way I'll know exactly what God said to her and I can tell you if she lied or not. Seems simple to me or am I missing something? But if there is no record of the conversation that you say occurred, well your question can not be answered without making an unwarranted assumption.

JB

You quoted the passage that shows that she was quoting God so you found the verses yourself. She quotes God and so we know what God said to her. You are missing something. This:

I'm not saying here that any 'conversation' occured. Eve didn't say anything to the serpent about a conversation between her and God. Though there is indeed a scriptural record of what God told her, hers. That's what I'm saying occured. Her wittness.

But if there is no record of the conversation that you say occurred, well your question can not be answered without making an unwarranted assumption.

Since there is a scriptural record of what God told her your reasoning above is based on the assumption that either she was lieing or was not intelligent enough to understand God's command. Otherwise WHY would you question her wittness, the biblical record of what God told her, to begin with?

Exactly. Adam and Eve did not know sin. They had just been created. Eve told the serpent what God said. We do have a quote about what God said to Adam. So Eve tells the serpent what God said to her. Simple.

Agreed

[firehill]

At first it seemed to me that we weren't on the same page.

I am not the one questioning her witness you are. I say there is no evidence that she lied. If the only record of what God told her is her statement I'll accept it as fact. If you show me that God did not say those word to her Then she lied. But you have fails to show scripture to back up your claim that her quote is not fully accurate.

I'm not questioning her wittness since there is no evidence that she lied. Her quote is accurate. There is no evidence otherwise.

Now if in fact she got her instructions from Adam then you may have a problem in Adam who also knew no sin. But as far as Eve goes you have vindicated her from any wrong doing unless you can show that God told her something other than Gen 3:3. I am waiting for your scripture.

JB

The bible doesn't have a problem with Adam since it never mentioned him adding to God's word.

It appears we are on the same page of Genesis.

I apologize if something I said wasn't clear.

[JB Horn]

Fine then I have your answer:

Were there 2 liars at the fall or just 1? ONE

Was Eve a liar or just 'dumb'? NEITHER

I'm too old for this I'm going to bed.

God bless

JB

[firehill]

Fine then I have your answer:

Were there 2 liars at the fall or just 1? ONE

Was Eve a liar or just 'dumb'? NEITHER

I'm too old for this I'm going to bed.

God bless

JB

I edited my OP (added the new first paragraph) for clarification.

Night, JB Horn.

[Sconzy]

Fine then I have your answer:

Were there 2 liars at the fall or just 1? ONE

Was Eve a liar or just 'dumb'? NEITHER

I'm too old for this I'm going to bed.

God bless

JB

I edited my OP (added the new first paragraph) for clarification.

Night, JB Horn.

You guys can really make something out of nothing....I wish I had time to help JB Horn argue further...

[terter]

Gen 2:17 Adam told not to eat the fruit.

Gen 2:18 Eve was created.

So guess he didn

[Guest Biblicist]

Before Eve

Gen 2:16 And the Lord God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."18 The Lord God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him."

Gen 3:2 The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.'"

So who did Eve hear her instructions from? Was she quoting God or Adam? Did adam lie to her, maybe he's the stupid one.

Either there was a secret conversation between Eve and God that is NOT recorded. . . OR [what are the chances of that?]

Adam told her and he misquoted God. . . OR

Eve misqouted what she heard from God. . . OR

Eve misquoted what Adam told her.

Is it possible that the sin did not begin with the conversation, but before that in their hearts? The nature of their sin was not in the act itself. It was in the heart. Their actions only revealed their heart. Actions are ruled by the heart, not the heart ruled by actions.

Luke 6:45 The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. For out of the overflow of his heart his mouth speaks.

As a side note, I do not think Adam and Eve were in the garden very long before this exchange occured.

[OopsMartin]

Before Eve

Gen 2:16 And the Lord God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."18 The Lord God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him."

Gen 3:2 The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.'"

So who did Eve hear her instructions from? Was she quoting God or Adam? Did adam lie to her, maybe he's the stupid one.

Either there was a secret conversation between Eve and God that is NOT recorded. . . OR [what are the chances of that?]

Adam told her and he misquoted God. . . OR

Eve misqouted what she heard from God. . . OR

Eve misquoted what Adam told her.

Is it possible that the sin did not begin with the conversation, but before that in their hearts? The nature of their sin was not in the act itself. It was in the heart. Their actions only revealed their heart. Actions are ruled by the heart, not the heart ruled by actions.

Luke 6:45 The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. For out of the overflow of his heart his mouth speaks.

As a side note, I do not think Adam and Eve were in the garden very long before this exchange occured.

Gen 3:2 The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.'"

I agree that Adam and Eve were not in the garden long before this conversation with the serpent took place.

Either there was a secret conversation between Eve and God that is NOT recorded. . . OR [what are the chances of that?]

Adam told her and he misquoted God. . . OR

Eve misqouted what she heard from God. . . OR

Eve misquoted what Adam told her.

I'm sure there were lots of "secret" conversations between God and Adam and Eve that were NOT recorded. The concept that God ONLY said what is recorded is really a stretch.

Why would we think that Adam or Eve misquoted anything? They were perfect creatures, the last creation, and Eve being the quintessimal (?) finishing touch on that perfection. Perfect beauty, perfect minds, perfect humans, knowing no sin but naive' and pure. If we stick to Scripture without adding in unstated assumptions, we must conclude that Eve told us extactly what God did say.

The question we must ask ourselves is why did God tell Eve that she or they must not touch it.

[firehill]

Either there was a secret conversation between Eve and God that is NOT recorded. . . OR [what are the chances of that?]

Adam told her and he misquoted God. . . OR

Eve misqouted what she heard from God. . . OR

Eve misquoted what Adam told her.

The bible doesn't tell us that Adam told her. The bible also doesn't tell us that the woman misquoted God, and it doesn't tell us that the woman misquoted Adam. So what are the chances that the second, third and fourth mentioned above are true? Nil. There is only scriptural evidence to support the first.

Is it possible that the sin did not begin with the conversation, but before that in their hearts? The nature of their sin was not in the act itself. It was in the heart. Their actions only revealed their heart. Actions are ruled by the heart, not the heart ruled by actions.

There is no evidence that she lied throughout the entire bible. What are the chances she lied if there is no scriptural support that she lied?

[Guest Biblicist]

Either there was a secret conversation between Eve and God that is NOT recorded. . . OR [what are the chances of that?]

Adam told her and he misquoted God. . . OR

Eve misqouted what she heard from God. . . OR

Eve misquoted what Adam told her.

The bible doesn't tell us that Adam told her. The bible also doesn't tell us that the woman misquoted God, and it doesn't tell us that the woman misquoted Adam. So what are the chances that the second, third and fourth mentioned above are true? Nil. There is only scriptural evidence to support the first.

Is it possible that the sin did not begin with the conversation, but before that in their hearts? The nature of their sin was not in the act itself. It was in the heart. Their actions only revealed their heart. Actions are ruled by the heart, not the heart ruled by actions.

There is no evidence that she lied throughout the entire bible. What are the chances she lied if there is no scriptural support that she lied?

Nor does the Bible tell us that God told her. Just because she used the words "God said", does not mean that she heard it directly from him. The fact remains that it is recorded that God told one thing to Adam and Eve told the Serpant something different.

What I said was that their sin began in their hearts, not that she lied. What the sin was, does not matter, where their hearts were does.

It seems to me that this is a classic case of the game Telephone. Remember that game? You tell someone a secret and they pass it around the circle, when it gets back to you it's never the same. . . I also might add that Satan knew exactly what commands God made in the Garden about the tree.

I am wondering why you are reading so much into this one passage? Sometimes you have to take a step back from your focus on the brush strokes and look at the big picture.