Adam's Responsibility?

[OopsMartin]

Eve was misled alright.

Yes, I agree. The interesting thing is that there are those who believe the same lie today. I have been meeting with some Mormon missionaries and they say that the serpent told the truth. They say he only lied about the no dying part, but the part about Adam and Eve becoming Gods themselves was true.

The same old lie, the same kinds of people - fully deceived. Only this time we get to do what Adam did not choose to do. We get to tell them that it is not the truth and we get to share the truth with them. It is so amazing to me how long this lie has been around and how many people still believe it!

That is very interesting. I bet working with Christian cults opens your eyes to a lot of how the Bible is misused, misinterpreted, and added to.

I was aware that Mormon thought the men become gods, but didn't know that is where they get it from. You do know Cheryl that even non-believing males like to entertain the grand idea that to women we are god-like.

[OopsMartin]

Eve and Adam had an up close and personal relationship with God, so Eve knew first hand of God's Laws just as Adam did.

Everything was available for them except one thing and I believe Eve slipped up by usurping her position as wife and not discussing a problem (because that's what it was) with her husband.

And a vital problem needed to be sorted out. He in turn, then didn't discuss it with God (not that he really needed to because he knew right from wrong) and decided to heed his wife's bad judgment call. A bad decision with eternal consequences.

While I agree with Firehill and Cheryl in their responses to this I must give you a thumbsup in one thing. Eve was not commanded to discuss important things with her husband and Adam wasn't commanded to help his wife. Remember they were pure, innocent, ignorant of the knowledge of GOOD as well as ignorant of the knowledge of evil.

But today we know better. Important decisions should be made together and really important decisions should be made together on our knees before God. Two heads are indeed better than one. This I believe is why God gave both men and women the same intelligence but wired our minds differently so that we think through things in different patterns. We can bounce off one another our unique insights. The strongest marriages work together this way.

[tsth]

You cannot be in agreement with Scripture, if you are not abiding in the commandment for "headship" authority. You cannot physically have an instituted "head" in the order, if you are BOTH leading. The HEAD means exactly what it means. So, to infer that you both can be leaders is anti-Scriptural.

When it comes down to very vital decisions, WHO gets to lead/make the final call for the family? Husband OR wife???

God told us.

1 Cor. 11:3 Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

Ephesians 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior.

Meditate on these passages:

Titus 2:1 You must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine. 2 Teach the older men to be temperate, worthy of respect, self-controlled, and sound in faith, in love and in endurance. 3 Likewise, teach the older women to be reverent in the way they live, not to be slanderers or addicted to much wine, but to teach what is good. 4 Then they can train the younger women to love their husbands and children, 5 to be self-controlled and pure, to be busy at home, to be kind, and to be subject to their husbands, so that no one will malign the word of God.

So, if you do not put the husband in an authority role, then who is? Who leads? Because the order spoken of by God is clearly a line by line order of authority. It is not questionable.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[firehill]

1 Cor. 11:3 Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

Ephesians 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior.

Titus 2:1 You must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine. 2 Teach the older men to be temperate, worthy of respect, self-controlled, and sound in faith, in love and in endurance. 3 Likewise, teach the older women to be reverent in the way they live, not to be slanderers or addicted to much wine, but to teach what is good. 4 Then they can train the younger women to love their husbands and children, 5 to be self-controlled and pure, to be busy at home, to be kind, and to be subject to their husbands, so that no one will malign the word of God.

What I would like you to do is show the context of these two verses and 1 passage providing that the husband has authority over the wife. For example, since the bible says that the husband is the head and you take this to mean 'authority' then the context will support this meaning if it is true and it will do so by describing this 'role of authority'. So show me the context then that supports what you think 'head' means that way. How does Paul describe the husband as head in Eph 5? How does he describe the man as head in 1 Co 11? Does he describe this 'headship' as authrority over? Regarding Titus 2:1 the husband as head isn't even mentioned but maybe you can show me where the husbands authority is spoken of anyway. I would like to see this context. You cannot be in agreement with Scripture if you cannot provide a supporting context and if you cannot provide a supporting context then your argument is from silence.

Also I'm still waiting for an answer from you as to the purpose of Adam having to be accountable to Eve telling her what God prohibited HIM alone from doing (Gen 2). Why would Adam have to tell her, 'God commanded me not to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.'?

[exrockstar]

Eve and Adam had an up close and personal relationship with God, so Eve knew first hand of God's Laws just as Adam did.

Everything was available for them except one thing and I believe Eve slipped up by usurping her position as wife and not discussing a problem (because that's what it was) with her husband.

And a vital problem needed to be sorted out. He in turn, then didn't discuss it with God (not that he really needed to because he knew right from wrong) and decided to heed his wife's bad judgment call. A bad decision with eternal consequences.

There is nothing in the passage that even hints that Eve had to discuss her own personal decision with her husband. Both Adam and Eve were both personally responsible for their own spiritual decision.

Actually God told Adam, and every male since, to come forth and provide sacrificial offerings.

If they were both responsible then why would God make the male come forth to represent the two (or family)?

Some females don't like to admit nor feel as though males have more of a responsibility.

Especially the independant females...forgetaboutit.

What you are saying is not scriptural. Let us test what you have said by God's word. Look in Acts 5 the story of Ananias and his wife Sapphira. Ananias decided to sin (Acts 5:2) and his wife had full knowledge of the plot.

Act 5:1 But a man named Ananias, with his wife Sapphira, sold a piece of property,

Act 5:2 and kept back some of the price for himself, with his wife's full knowledge, and bringing a portion of it, he laid it at the apostles' feet.

Did God only call the man to account for his family? Or did the wife hold a responsibility for her part in the plot? Let's see.

Act 5:3 But Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back some of the price of the land?

Act 5:4 "While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not under your control? Why is it that you have conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God."

Act 5:5 And as he heard these words, Ananias fell down and breathed his last; and great fear came over all who heard of it.

Act 5:6 The young men got up and covered him up, and after carrying him out, they buried him.

Act 5:7 Now there elapsed an interval of about three hours, and his wife came in, not knowing what had happened.

Act 5:8 And Peter responded to her, "Tell me whether you sold the land for such and such a price?" And she said, "Yes, that was the price."

Act 5:9 Then Peter said to her, "Why is it that you have agreed together to put the Spirit of the Lord to the test? Behold, the feet of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out as well."

Act 5:10 And immediately she fell at his feet and breathed her last, and the young men came in and found her dead, and they carried her out and buried her beside her husband.

You will see here that Ananias was not called to account for the family. Sapphira was put to death for her own sin. Otherwise she could have claimed that it was her husband's decision for the family and she was not to blame.

The idea that males have more responsibility and that they will be called to account for the family while the wife will not, is not scriptural. Where do we get the idea that the man is more responsible? Not from the scriptures. It comes from our faulty tradition.

maybe i should say man has obligations and roles that are expected.

let me clarify this...a Christian man has obligations and roles that are expected.

.

[firehill]

Eve and Adam had an up close and personal relationship with God, so Eve knew first hand of God's Laws just as Adam did.

Everything was available for them except one thing and I believe Eve slipped up by usurping her position as wife and not discussing a problem (because that's what it was) with her husband.

And a vital problem needed to be sorted out. He in turn, then didn't discuss it with God (not that he really needed to because he knew right from wrong) and decided to heed his wife's bad judgment call. A bad decision with eternal consequences.

There is nothing in the passage that even hints that Eve had to discuss her own personal decision with her husband. Both Adam and Eve were both personally responsible for their own spiritual decision.

Actually God told Adam, and every male since, to come forth and provide sacrificial offerings.

If they were both responsible then why would God make the male come forth to represent the two (or family)?

Some females don't like to admit nor feel as though males have more of a responsibility.

Especially the independant females...forgetaboutit.

What you are saying is not scriptural. Let us test what you have said by God's word. Look in Acts 5 the story of Ananias and his wife Sapphira. Ananias decided to sin (Acts 5:2) and his wife had full knowledge of the plot.

Act 5:1 But a man named Ananias, with his wife Sapphira, sold a piece of property,

Act 5:2 and kept back some of the price for himself, with his wife's full knowledge, and bringing a portion of it, he laid it at the apostles' feet.

Did God only call the man to account for his family? Or did the wife hold a responsibility for her part in the plot? Let's see.

Act 5:3 But Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back some of the price of the land?

Act 5:4 "While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not under your control? Why is it that you have conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God."

Act 5:5 And as he heard these words, Ananias fell down and breathed his last; and great fear came over all who heard of it.

Act 5:6 The young men got up and covered him up, and after carrying him out, they buried him.

Act 5:7 Now there elapsed an interval of about three hours, and his wife came in, not knowing what had happened.

Act 5:8 And Peter responded to her, "Tell me whether you sold the land for such and such a price?" And she said, "Yes, that was the price."

Act 5:9 Then Peter said to her, "Why is it that you have agreed together to put the Spirit of the Lord to the test? Behold, the feet of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out as well."

Act 5:10 And immediately she fell at his feet and breathed her last, and the young men came in and found her dead, and they carried her out and buried her beside her husband.

You will see here that Ananias was not called to account for the family. Sapphira was put to death for her own sin. Otherwise she could have claimed that it was her husband's decision for the family and she was not to blame.

The idea that males have more responsibility and that they will be called to account for the family while the wife will not, is not scriptural. Where do we get the idea that the man is more responsible? Not from the scriptures. It comes from our faulty tradition.

maybe i should say man has obligations and roles that are expected.

let me clarify this...a Christian man has obligations and roles that are expected.

.

What are the roles and will you show me the biblical descriptions of what 'his role' entails. I wanna hear the the descriptions given from the bible.

[exrockstar]

What are the roles and will you show me the biblical descriptions of what 'his role' entails. I wanna hear the the descriptions given from the bible.

start reading proverbs.

Ch 1 verse 1 and read it on through.

if i start picking at new testament scriptures then you may not feel as content as reading something in its "fullness."

Proverbs is a good book.

[OopsMartin]

Also I'm still waiting for an answer from you as to the purpose of Adam having to be accountable to Eve telling her what God prohibited HIM alone from doing (Gen 2). Why would Adam have to tell her, 'God commanded me not to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.'?

It is rather funny that it has been taught that way. But how could God have been telling Adam what both of them were to do when Adam didn't have any idea that God was going to create a mate for him. And of course God could not tell him that because that would ruin the lesson that God was going to teach him by naming all the animals. well duh!

[firehill]

What are the roles and will you show me the biblical descriptions of what 'his role' entails. I wanna hear the the descriptions given from the bible.

start reading proverbs.

Ch 1 verse 1 and read it on through.

if i start picking at new testament scriptures then you may not feel as content as reading something in its "fullness."

Proverbs is a good book.

Below is not what I asked for. What are you saying? Where in there does it speak of husbands and wives and the husband's role?

1 The proverbs of Solomon son of David, king of Israel:

2 for attaining wisdom and discipline;

for understanding words of insight;

3 for acquiring a disciplined and prudent life,

doing what is right and just and fair;

4 for giving prudence to the simple,

knowledge and discretion to the young-

5 let the wise listen and add to their learning,

and let the discerning get guidance-

6 for understanding proverbs and parables,

the sayings and riddles of the wise.

7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge,

but fools [a] despise wisdom and discipline.

Exhortations to Embrace Wisdom

Warning Against Enticement

8 Listen, my son, to your father's instruction

and do not forsake your mother's teaching.

9 They will be a garland to grace your head

and a chain to adorn your neck.

10 My son, if sinners entice you,

do not give in to them.

11 If they say, "Come along with us;

let's lie in wait for someone's blood,

let's waylay some harmless soul;

12 let's swallow them alive, like the grave,

and whole, like those who go down to the pit;

13 we will get all sorts of valuable things

and fill our houses with plunder;

14 throw in your lot with us,

and we will share a common purse"-

15 my son, do not go along with them,

do not set foot on their paths;

16 for their feet rush into sin,

they are swift to shed blood.

17 How useless to spread a net

in full view of all the birds!

18 These men lie in wait for their own blood;

they waylay only themselves!

19 Such is the end of all who go after ill-gotten gain;

it takes away the lives of those who get it.

Warning Against Rejecting Wisdom

20 Wisdom calls aloud in the street,

she raises her voice in the public squares;

21 at the head of the noisy streets [c] she cries out,

in the gateways of the city she makes her speech:

22 "How long will you simple ones [d] love your simple ways?

How long will mockers delight in mockery

and fools hate knowledge?

23 If you had responded to my rebuke,

I would have poured out my heart to you

and made my thoughts known to you.

24 But since you rejected me when I called

and no one gave heed when I stretched out my hand,

25 since you ignored all my advice

and would not accept my rebuke,

26 I in turn will laugh at your disaster;

I will mock when calamity overtakes you-

27 when calamity overtakes you like a storm,

when disaster sweeps over you like a whirlwind,

when distress and trouble overwhelm you.

28 "Then they will call to me but I will not answer;

they will look for me but will not find me.

[OopsMartin]

What are the roles and will you show me the biblical descriptions of what 'his role' entails. I wanna hear the the descriptions given from the bible.

start reading proverbs.

Ch 1 verse 1 and read it on through.

if i start picking at new testament scriptures then you may not feel as content as reading something in its "fullness."

Proverbs is a good book.

Hey exrockstar..... are you really an ex-rockstar? who did you play with/for?

Proverbs is a great book and every man loves to tell women to read Prov. 31. It paints a great picture of a wife.

However, I don't think that was what firehill is asking or needing. Perhaps, spelling out how you think certain Scriptures should be applied would work better. But keep in mind that we are talking about ADAM'S responsibility, not Eve's. And I'm not even convinced that Adam's responsibility rolls onto all men.