Who is Israel?

[nebula]

Not saying that at all I am say thing he didnt become a better Jew he became a son of God.

Where are you getting that I said "a better Jew"?

[Guest shiloh357]

Sorry, but Barnes and Clarke got it wrong as did Robertson. You have quoted those commenators ad nauseum, and you can cut and paste till the cows come home, but "Israel of God" refers ONLY to believing Jews. Gentiles are not referenced in that phrase.

You can erect your silly straw-man argument and you can deny what is written but your denial will never negate the truth. Today just as in the 1st Century the true *Israel of God* are those who are

[Jedi4Yahweh]

Shiloh

Sorry Horizon, but that is not how Paul uses the term "Israel of God," and I have quoted others in the field of scholarship who do not see it as you do. So it is not my "straw man."

You intentionally misunderstand my point, brother. Your straw-man is not our argument over who does and does not constitute the

[Guest shiloh357]

Your straw-man is your assertion that those who hold my position

[Vickilynn]

What I meant was a Jew who didn't believe - when they actually come to belief -

Then, do they join into our faith? Or do they come into the fullness of their faith?

(I believe they come into the fullness of their faith. )

Shalom Nebula,

There is no "our faith" or "their faith." Faith is in G-d and His Messiah.

I think you are misunderstanding what I am trying to say.

Have you not heard people saying that when a Jew comes to believe in Jesus that they are now a Christian and no longer a Jew? That's what I was referring to with the first statement.

By the second, I meant is not faith in Messiah Yeshua the fullness of the faith of their fathers? (Does that make more sense?)

Shalom Nebula,

Ahhhh yes! Maketh much more sense now! And I agree! G-d's plan has ALWAYS and still is, for the Jew to come to know His Messiah, Yeshua, the seed of Abraham.

[Guest shiloh357]

QUOTE

shiloh357

This in no way indicates that the church is "spirtual Israel" or the "true Israel."

Do you then agree with me that Holy Writ describes the

[Guest shiloh357]

We are called to be a peculiar as Christians, we are commanded to shine as light in darkness, we are called to offer our bodies as living sacrifices, we are told offer the sacrifice of praise. We are called living stones of a living temple, our bodies are invididually referred to as temples. The New Testament uses all kinds of OT imagery in relation to believers, but that does not make Gentiles "spirtual Israel." Nothing in that imagery identifies Gentiles as "Israel" spiritual or otherwise. You are simply trying force more on to Peter's words than what was intended.

You didn

[Guest shiloh357]

Christians are a holy nation in a similar way that Israel is a holy nation.

Does God then have two

[Vickilynn]

Shalom,

As a VERY interested reader in this thread, I just want to commend Shiloh on his Bible knowledge and his grace in dealing with this often misunderstood and misused topic. Shiloh, you may feel like you're all alone in here, but you're not! I'm just getting out of the way and letting you share the Biblical wisdom that you have!

Amen Brother, keep it up!

[Vickilynn]

Shalom,

http://www.levitt.com/essays/israel-church.html

Second View: Israel and the Church are Different

The other view, we believe, is clearly taught in the New Testament, but it has been suppressed throughout most of Church history. This view is that the Church is completely different and distinct from Israel, and the two should not be confused. In fact, the Church is an entirely new creation that came into being on the Day of Pentecost after Christ