Naming the Name of Christ

[Fiosh]

QUOTE

I'm not trying to be argumentative. This is a very perplexing topic for me b/c I know people who are practicing h's yet show the "fruits" of the Spirit in their lives

Fiosh, I don't believe you do intend to be argumentative, but the spirit that they show can't be that of the Holy Spirit As mentioned in another post,

If we say we have fellowship with Him and walk in darkness, we lie and do not the truth. 1Jn.1:6

cheers,

eric.

I can't see into their heart and spirit, eric. If they say they love Jesus, who am I to say they don't?

[Guest shiloh357]

We are both saints and sinners---all of us. We strive to allow the Holy Spirit to move in us and manifest His fruits, but how often do we fail?

1. It is a spirtual impossibility to be both a sinner AND a saint. I still sin, but I am not a "sinner." The Bible NEVER calls Christians, "sinners." Of the 20+ times the word sinner is used, it is NEVER applied to Christians anywhere in the New Testamemt. The term "sinner" 100% of the time refers to those who are unredeemed. Christians are always referred to as saints, though.

Only have a minute. I'm at work.....

I won't argue semantics with you, Shiloh. I'm using the dictionary definition, i.e. one who sins.

I could say, "my spirit wars with my flesh"----that's my implication.

Peace,

Fiosh

Well you can use the dicitionary defintion, Fiosh. I am using The Bible's defintion which is God's definition of sin. If you want to base your theology on a dictionary that is up to you. I am going to allow the Bible to shape how I view this issue.

The Bible NEVER calls Christians sinners. That is not something you can just brush under the rug. The Bible makes a distinction between sinners and saints and never ONCE in Scripture are the two used simultaneously to refer to Christians.

I defy you or anyone else to prove me wrong.

[Guest shiloh357]

QUOTE

I'm not trying to be argumentative. This is a very perplexing topic for me b/c I know people who are practicing h's yet show the "fruits" of the Spirit in their lives

Fiosh, I don't believe you do intend to be argumentative, but the spirit that they show can't be that of the Holy Spirit As mentioned in another post,

If we say we have fellowship with Him and walk in darkness, we lie and do not the truth. 1Jn.1:6

cheers,

eric.

I can't see into their heart and spirit, eric. If they say they love Jesus, who am I to say they don't?

If they loved Jesus, they would seek to be delivered from homosexuality, not continue to live in it and justify it. If they loved Jesus, they would not grieve Him by living in disobedience. If they want to continue in their sin, they don't love Jesus and are not Christians.

[Fiosh]

Shiloh, I won't argue legalistically and miss the spirit of what I'm saying.

RE: "If you want to base your theology on a dictionary that is up to you. "

That was uncalled for; and to use your word---haughty. I'm not "basing my theology on the dictionary". Please!

I already agreed to change my wording:

"my spirit wars with my flesh"----that's my implication.

That is a Biblical principle.

There are plenty of folks who love Jesus and want to follow Him, but continue to live in denial of their sin. Will the Holy Spirit eventually convict them of ALL their sin? I have no doubt. When will He do so? That's up to Him.

Where in this process they become "Christians" is not always as black and white as you seem to want to make it.

Many Christians live in denial of their own favorite sin. As they grow in faith, and in relationship with Jesus, these sins begin to come to light. It doesn't always happen in a flash of lightning.

[Fiosh]

QUOTE

I'm not trying to be argumentative. This is a very perplexing topic for me b/c I know people who are practicing h's yet show the "fruits" of the Spirit in their lives

Fiosh, I don't believe you do intend to be argumentative, but the spirit that they show can't be that of the Holy Spirit As mentioned in another post,

If we say we have fellowship with Him and walk in darkness, we lie and do not the truth. 1Jn.1:6

cheers,

eric.

I can't see into their heart and spirit, eric. If they say they love Jesus, who am I to say they don't?

If they loved Jesus, they would seek to be delivered from homosexuality, not continue to live in it and justify it. If they loved Jesus, they would not grieve Him by living in disobedience. If they want to continue in their sin, they don't love Jesus and are not Christians.

Will you at least allow that there may be some who yearn to be free from it, but do not yet have the strength of will to leave the lifestyle?

[EricH]

Shiloh, I won't argue legalistically and miss the spirit of what I'm saying.

RE: "If you want to base your theology on a dictionary that is up to you. "

That was uncalled for; and to use your word---haughty. I'm not "basing my theology on the dictionary". Please!

I already agreed to change my wording:

"my spirit wars with my flesh"----that's my implication.

That is a Biblical principle.

There are plenty of folks who love Jesus and want to follow Him, but continue to live in denial of their sin. Will the Holy Spirit eventually convict them of ALL their sin? I have no doubt. When will He do so? That's up to Him.

Where in this process they become "Christians" is not always as black and white as you seem to want to make it.

Many Christians live in denial of their own favorite sin. As they grow in faith, and in relationship with Jesus, these sins begin to come to light. It doesn't always happen in a flash of lightning.

Maybe a good question to ask at this point is how to we "quantify" if people love God? In otherwords, what did Jesus have to say about how we can know if we do in fact love Him? A few scriptures that come to mind:

The one who has My commands and keeps them is the one who loves Me. And the one who loves Me will be loved by My Father. I also will love him and will reveal Myself to him."

John 14:21 HCSB

If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For the person who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen.

1 John 4:20 HCSB

[Fiosh]

John 13: 35

"This is how all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another."

John 9

39 Then Jesus said, "I came into this world for judgment, so that those who do not see might see, and those who do see might become blind."

40

Some of the Pharisees who were with him heard this and said to him, "Surely we are not also blind, are we?"

41

Jesus said to them, "If you were blind, you would have no sin; but now you are saying, 'We see,' so your sin remains.

[Fiosh]

Mark 8

22

When they arrived at Bethsaida, they brought to him a blind man and begged him to touch him.

23

He took the blind man by the hand and led him outside the village. Putting spittle on his eyes he laid his hands on him and asked, "Do you see anything?"

24

Looking up he replied, "I see people looking like trees and walking."

25

Then he laid hands on his eyes a second time and he saw clearly; his sight was restored and he could see everything distinctly.

26

Then he sent him home and said, "Do not even go into the village."

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For some it is a gradual process to come to fully understand who Jesus is, and what it means to follow Him.

[Guest shiloh357]

Shiloh, I won't argue legalistically and miss the spirit of what I'm saying.

RE: "If you want to base your theology on a dictionary that is up to you. "

That was uncalled for; and to use your word---haughty. I'm not "basing my theology on the dictionary". Please!

Perhaps, but the fact remains that you opted for the dictionary definition of sinner instead of the superior biblical definition.

I already agreed to change my wording:

"my spirit wars with my flesh"----that's my implication.

That is a Biblical principle.

Yes, but that is not exactly what we are talking about. We are talking about people who are persuaded that their sin of hommosexuality is not at all and, therefore, do not "wrestle" with it. For them it is not a case at all their spirit being at war with their flesh. It is a case of them simply denying the truth about this issue as it is presented in the Scriptures.

Where in this process they become "Christians" is not always as black and white as you seem to want to make it.

Becoming a Christian is black and white. How does one know if he is a Christian. He has to be able to point to a definite point in His life where he was born again, where he accepted Christ as his Lord and Savior. Becoming a Christian is the result of conscious decision made for Christ. It does not come from a process, it does not come from rituals, or some mystical awakening, it does not depend on belonging to any particular denomination. One can belong to the Christian religion and not be a true New Testament Christian. One becomes a Christian when he has consciously and deliberately accepted Christ.

There are plenty of folks who love Jesus and want to follow Him, but continue to live in denial of their sin.

That is an impossibility. That is like someone saying to his wife, "I really do love you but I see nothing wrong with sleeping with other women."

Love, like faith is operative in nature. You cannot claim to love someone and yet continue to do those things that grieve them and cause them pain. That does not work in the natural world, so why would we think that it would work that way with God.

The biblical concept of love is operative. It is not emotional. Love without works is just as dead as faith without works and James the apostle demonstrates that in James chapter 2. True love is always accompanied by corresponding action and so for someone to say, "I love Jesus, but I just can't stop sleeping with my homosexual lover" is, at best a very deceived person and at worst, a fraud.

Will you at least allow that there may be some who yearn to be free from it, but do not yet have the strength of will to leave the lifestyle?

I have already dealt with that issue. Please read my responses from yesterday (thu night).

[Guest shiloh357]

Mark 8

22

When they arrived at Bethsaida, they brought to him a blind man and begged him to touch him.

23

He took the blind man by the hand and led him outside the village. Putting spittle on his eyes he laid his hands on him and asked, "Do you see anything?"

24

Looking up he replied, "I see people looking like trees and walking."

25

Then he laid hands on his eyes a second time and he saw clearly; his sight was restored and he could see everything distinctly.

26

Then he sent him home and said, "Do not even go into the village."

****************************************************************

For some it is a gradual process to come to fully understand who Jesus is, and what it means to follow Him.

Irrelvant to the topic