Naming the Name of Christ

[Guest shiloh357]

Here's what we do not agree on:

1. People who deny that their lifestyle is sinful but say they follow Christ cannot be Christians.

Correct?

I suppose.

So you think that homosexual who discards the portions of the Bible that define homosexuality as a sin and refuses to acknowledge what the Bible says, can actually be a true follower of Christ? Do you think that a person can be a practicing homosexual AND be a true Christian?

Shiloh: "I would not war against something that I did not think was sin. "

Obviously. And so you cannot see the subtle nature of the battle that continually wages.

No, I simply define the war between the flesh and spirit the way Scripture does as opposed to your homespun version. If a person is unrepentant, has no war against the flesh, no true remorse over sin in their lives, no struggle, and even worse, seek to redefine sin so as to exclude the sin in their lives from falling under that heading, that would indicate that they are not a Christian.

And perhaps, Shiloh, you need to develop some compassion.

I am one of the most compassionate people on this planet. However, I am not going to sacrifice honesty or truth for the sake of compassion. I am compassionate toward those who are truly struggling as believers against their former lives and have no end of patience and compassion for them.

However, I am honest about those who simply reject the portions of the Scriptures that displease them; who seek to impose their subjective values upon the Scriptures and approach Christ on their own terms. This is what is happening in the world, and particularly in the homosexual community which is seeking in roads into the church and are seeking for homosexuals to be accepted as legitimate believers in Christ.

[Guest shiloh357]

Shiloh, what do you think homosexuality is? .........is it a choice?..........is it an illness.........is it genetic...........is it normal........etc.

Homosexualilty is a sin. God calls it an abomination. It is more than a "choice." It, like all sins, is an act of rebellion against the revealed Will of God.

[Guest shiloh357]

Shiloh, you are confusing Christianity and Christian perfection.

There is no such thing as Christian perfection. No such thing exists in this world. I didn't say anything about perfection.

[Fiosh]

Shiloh, you are confusing Christianity and Christian perfection.

There is no such thing as Christian perfection. No such thing exists in this world. I didn't say anything about perfection.

True enough. But it is a goal for all of us: "Be perfect, as your Heavenly Father is perfect."

It sounds like you are expecting perfection before a person can be considered a Christian.

[Fiosh]

Shiloh, what do you think homosexuality is? .........is it a choice?..........is it an illness.........is it genetic...........is it normal........etc.

Homosexualilty is a sin. God calls it an abomination. It is more than a "choice." It, like all sins, is an act of rebellion against the revealed Will of God.

Make no mistake, I do agree with you that it is sin.

I was wondering what you think the cause of it is.

I lean toward some being a result of trauma and some genetic.

[Guest shiloh357]

Shiloh, you are confusing Christianity and Christian perfection.

There is no such thing as Christian perfection. No such thing exists in this world. I didn't say anything about perfection.

True enough. But it is a goal for all of us: "Be perfect, as your Heavenly Father is perfect."

It sounds like you are expecting perfection before a person can be considered a Christian.

I said nothing of the sort. If that were true I would not be so accepting of those who struggle. I do expect a Christian to bear resemblance to the Bible's definition of Christian though. That is not an expectation or demand for perfection.

[Guest shiloh357]

Shiloh, what do you think homosexuality is? .........is it a choice?..........is it an illness.........is it genetic...........is it normal........etc.

Homosexualilty is a sin. God calls it an abomination. It is more than a "choice." It, like all sins, is an act of rebellion against the revealed Will of God.

Make no mistake, I do agree with you that it is sin.

I was wondering what you think the cause of it is.

I lean toward some being a result of trauma and some genetic.

If it were genetic, then God could not condemn it as sin. That is why the "genetic" argument fails. If homosexuality were beyond the control of the person, if it were born into them as an innate, inherent characteristic, then God would not have called it an abomination.

As for trauma, I can accept that some people do fall into that sin as well as other sins because of traumatic events, but it is still a sin, and "trauma" does not excuse it. It still has to be repented of. It is still an abomination to God regardless of the reason. Each of us are responsible for our sins, and we are responsible to repent and turn to Christ for delieverance.

So you can either call it what the Bible calls it, or not. I, however, will defer to the Bible's definition of homosexuality and to the Bible's remedy for it.

[Fiosh]

Here's what we do not agree on:

1. People who deny that their lifestyle is sinful but say they follow Christ cannot be Christians.

Correct?

I suppose.

So you think that homosexual who discards the portions of the Bible that define homosexuality as a sin and refuses to acknowledge what the Bible says, can actually be a true follower of Christ? Do you think that a person can be a practicing homosexual AND be a true Christian?

Yes. And I believe that the Holy Spirit will convict them of their sin in His time. At that point, when their eyes are fully opened, they will have to choose to repent, or to reject Christ in favor of their own desires.

[Have you noticed how many Christians are living together w/o the benefit of marriage? They deny that it is sin, and think those are just old-fashioned values]

Shiloh: "I would not war against something that I did not think was sin. "

Obviously. And so you cannot see the subtle nature of the battle that continually wages.

No, I simply define the war between the flesh and spirit the way Scripture does as opposed to your homespun version. If a person is unrepentant, has no war against the flesh, no true remorse over sin in their lives, no struggle, and even worse, seek to redefine sin so as to exclude the sin in their lives from falling under that heading, that would indicate that they are not a Christian.

I repeat, you are missing the subtle battle that Satan wages with his lies which is also very Scriptural.

Re: homespun

And perhaps, Shiloh, you need to develop some compassion.

I am one of the most compassionate people on this planet. However, I am not going to sacrifice honesty or truth for the sake of compassion. I am compassionate toward those who are truly struggling as believers against their former lives and have no end of patience and compassion for them.

Your compassion is not evident in your posts. My mistake.

However, I am honest about those who simply reject the portions of the Scriptures that displease them; who seek to impose their subjective values upon the Scriptures and approach Christ on their own terms. This is what is happening in the world, and particularly in the homosexual community which is seeking in roads into the church and are seeking for homosexuals to be accepted as legitimate believers in Christ.

I am NOT saying to accept the homosexual lifestyle as righteous. It is sin. And the Church needs to continue to teach truth. I never said otherwise.

There is a huge difference between accepting it as "ok"---and accepting those who have not yet been convicted and admit their sin.

[Fiosh]

Shiloh, what do you think homosexuality is? .........is it a choice?..........is it an illness.........is it genetic...........is it normal........etc.

Homosexualilty is a sin. God calls it an abomination. It is more than a "choice." It, like all sins, is an act of rebellion against the revealed Will of God.

Make no mistake, I do agree with you that it is sin.

I was wondering what you think the cause of it is.

I lean toward some being a result of trauma and some genetic.

If it were genetic, then God could not condemn it as sin. That is why the "genetic" argument fails. If homosexuality were beyond the control of the person, if it were born into them as an innate, inherent characteristic, then God would not have called it an abomination.

As for trauma, I can accept that some people do fall into that sin as well as other sins because of traumatic events, but it is still a sin, and "trauma" does not excuse it. It still has to be repented of. It is still an abomination to God regardless of the reason. Each of us are responsible for our sins, and we are responsible to repent and turn to Christ for delieverance.

So you can either call it what the Bible calls it, or not. I, however, will defer to the Bible's definition of homosexuality and to the Bible's remedy for it.

You're gettin' haughty again. You are arguing against things I haven't proposed. I never said that I didn't accept the Bible's definition of it as an abomination--I do. And I also know that the Bible promises that God will never allow us to face a temptation w/o giving us the grace to withstand it . So back off, buddy. At least stick to refuting what I actually say.

I'm not sure the genetic argument fails on those grounds. What about the criminal with an abnormally high testosterone level. If he murders, its still sin.

Or the unmarried male with the genetically high libido. If he succumbs, its still sin.

Just because the homosexual may be genetically pre-disposed to be attracted to the same sex, does not mean it is out of his control.

I'm gentically predisposed to be attracted to the opposite sex. Yet, if I cheat on my husband, its still sin.

I'm not trying to excuse it. I was just curious as to your thoughts on what causes homosexuality.

[Guest shiloh357]

So you think that homosexual who discards the portions of the Bible that define homosexuality as a sin and refuses to acknowledge what the Bible says, can actually be a true follower of Christ? Do you think that a person can be a practicing homosexual AND be a true Christian?

Yes. And I believe that the Holy Spirit will convict them of their sin in His time. At that point, when their eyes are fully opened, they will have to choose to repent, or to reject Christ in favor of their own desires.

Sorry, but in the Bible, repentance precedes salvation. You have a very liberal and skewed view of what being a Christian is. One cannot live in an abomination and be a Christian at the same time.

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

(2 Corinthians 5:17)

One cannot remain a homosexual because being born again is predicated on an inner transformation of the heart with a new set of desires. The Holy Spirit does not wait to convict of sin. The process of sanctification is immediate. It is not something that starts sometime down the road.

[Have you noticed how many Christians are living together w/o the benefit of marriage? They deny that it is sin, and think those are just old-fashioned values]

I haven't noticed any Christians doing that. I have noticed a lot of people who THINK they are Christians who live in sin and seek to justify it as acceptable.

I repeat, you are missing the subtle battle that Satan wages with his lies which is also very Scriptural.

How is it "subtle?"

I am one of the most compassionate people on this planet. However, I am not going to sacrifice honesty or truth for the sake of compassion. I am compassionate toward those who are truly struggling as believers against their former lives and have no end of patience and compassion for them.

Your compassion is not evident in your posts. My mistake.

Of course, because I don't acquiese to your point of view, I am not compassionate. Actually, I am far more compassionate than you are. I am willing to tell people the truth about their sin and their need for Christ as the remedy for their sin and the answer for the needs in their lives.

You just want to feed them with the lie that they are okay the way they are, and maybe someday when God gets around to it, he will convict them of their sin. What happens when they die in their sin? They will die without hope in Christ because you told them that it was okay for them to be a practising homosexual and that they could still be a Christian and live in that abomination. Your "compassion" will cost them their eternal life. If you really loved them, you would tell them the truth. Your compassion, where this issue is concerned is a fraud.

I am NOT saying to accept the homosexual lifestyle as righteous. It is sin. And the Church needs to continue to teach truth. I never said otherwise.

There is a huge difference between accepting it as "ok"---and accepting those who have not yet been convicted and admit their sin.

Well, you need to make up your mind, Fiosh. If it is a sin, then you cannot blame it on genetics. You are trying to argue two positions that are mutually exclusive.

No, there is not much difference between accepting it as "OK" and accepting, as Christians, those who do not see their homosexual lifestyle as sin. If we accept them as homosexuals in the beginning, what moral ground do we have to later tell them it is a sin and that they cannot continue? If it wasn't a problem when they joinend 6 months ago, why should it a problem now? If the truth is not held to at the beginning, it will discarded as irrelevant later. The Bible nowhere teaches that those who reject the knowledge of their sin are Christians. Becoming a Christian begins with acknowledging your sin and repenting of it.

All people like you accomplish is hardening sinners against true godly repentance of sin and their need for a Savior.