Rev. 18

[Guest yod]

What I wonder . . .

It seems to me the Vatican fits better into the symbolism of the feet of iron and clay in King Nebecchednezzer's vision of the statue than to "Mystery Babylon."

I'd explain more, but I gotta run to class.  Maybe after I get back.

why couldn't it be both?

In other words...I've already posted how the EU began at the Council of Rome. Why not the Council of Berlin or Paris???

The Vatican's power should not be underestimated. They own property in China, for Chist's sake (literally!)

I remember when Bush's dad went after Noriega. The US Army had no qualms about searching the various residences of foreign ambassadors and their embassies....but they wouldn't go inside the gates of the papal nuncio. (Vatican Embassy)

They stood outside and played loud rock music for weeks. Ya'll remember that?

The Pope cut a deal to release Noriega. What does that tell you about the authority which Noriega and the President of the USA gives the Vatican?

[nebula]

Re-read your medieval history, Smasher - the Pople had the ultimate authority in Europe throughout that time.

Doesn't cut it Neb.

You do know the popes were responsible for the Crusades, don't you?

You do know the pope had authority over the kings in "The Holy Roman Empire," don't you?

You do know the pope sent soldiers against groups of real Christians who established themselves and their walk with Christ apart from the Roman Catholic Church don't you?

The problem with your theory is that between the Roman Empire and America is several centuries, and other nations had established themselves as empires for a period of time in between then (Soviet Union, Brittain, Spain).

Democracy and communism in a mixed empire? Wishful thinking.

[Guest idolsmasher]

The Vatican's power should not be underestimated

I shouldn't be overestimated either, which is exactly what you are doing.

[nebula]

Who are what gave birth to prostitutes

What do prostitutes work for? Mammon of course.

Historically, prostitutes were priestesses. They worked in the service of the fertility gods.

Keep in mind that not all prostitutes are "street walkers." There are some who use their craft for power and usurping. And of course, there are many who are what they are because they are in essence slaves; to say they work for money would be farce.

And what are these abominations

There are lots of abominations. Idolatry and worship of mammon and materialism is an abomination, also called spiritual adultery and playing the harlot.

and what of "immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these," (Gal. 5:19-21)?

Was it for "the love of money" that the Lord caused His people Israel to go into captivity time and time again? As I read judges and the prophets, I see not "mammon."

I just wanted to bring this back up - since the topic got sidetracked.

[Guest yod]

The Vatican's power should not be underestimated

I shouldn't be overestimated either, which is exactly what you are doing.

Oh yeah????

I know you are but what am I???