Forgiveness

[Fraught]

does forgiveness include forgetfulness?

obviously we can't willfully forget. but if you take into account the past actions of people when dealing with them, is this being unforgiving? for example, if you have a relationship with someone that regularly lies, would you take what that person says with a grain of salt? I have thought 'yes' - you can do that without harboring ill will or seeking revenge and that would be forgiveness. but yesterday i was told that just the fact of acknowledging something like that in a person and dealing with them accordingly is being unforgiving.

to me, that is an issue of trust rather than forgiveness. who is correct?

(this post has been edited to make it shorter and less personal)

[Carol R]

does forgiveness include forgetfulness?

obviously we can't willfully forget. but if you take into account the past actions of people when dealing with them, is this being unforgiving? for example, if you have a relationship with someone that regularly lies, would you take what that person says with a grain of salt? I have thought 'yes' - you can do that without harboring ill will or seeking revenge and that would be forgiveness. but yesterday i was told that just the fact of acknowledging something like that in a person and dealing with them accordingly is being unforgiving.

to me, that is an issue of trust rather than forgiveness. who is correct?

(this post has been edited to make it shorter and less personal)

I think that if you take the situation to God and forgive them then they are forgiven.

But God gives us wisdom and trust has to be earned, you do have to be careful as it is a fine line.

Maybe as long as you don't cast these things up at them all the time and you are just being cautious.

Is this person a christian? because how you treat the situation will be different in that you may want to speak to them about their behaviour in love, carefully sharing scripture with them.

This is just my opinion by the way and it may be worth you speaking to a pastor for more advice on this, I would definately pray about it before doing anything.

[OopsMartin]

Forgiving a person is one thing. Their repentance is another thing. If they do not, have not repented of wrong actions then wisdom says you be wary. After one puts their hands in a fire, if the fire is not put out, we cannot pretend that it doesn't exist and put our hand in the fire again.

Forgiving them frees you to love them again without bitterness. Love is wise. God's wisdom can guide us to still love a person who is in deliberate sin, without foolishly allowing them to harm us and/or others.

[Eddie B]

does forgiveness include forgetfulness?

obviously we can't willfully forget. but if you take into account the past actions of people when dealing with them, is this being unforgiving? for example, if you have a relationship with someone that regularly lies, would you take what that person says with a grain of salt? I have thought 'yes' - you can do that without harboring ill will or seeking revenge and that would be forgiveness. but yesterday i was told that just the fact of acknowledging something like that in a person and dealing with them accordingly is being unforgiving.

to me, that is an issue of trust rather than forgiveness. who is correct?

(this post has been edited to make it shorter and less personal)

This makes me think of when I was raising my children.They would disobey me and I would correct them, tell them I love them and forgive them, only to have them do it again.

Luk 17:3 Take heed to yourselves. If your brother trespasses against you, rebuke him. And if he repents, forgive him.

Luk 17:4 And if he trespasses against you seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turns again to you, saying, I repent, you shall forgive him.

[ColleenLovesMischief]

does forgiveness include forgetfulness?

obviously we can't willfully forget. but if you take into account the past actions of people when dealing with them, is this being unforgiving? for example, if you have a relationship with someone that regularly lies, would you take what that person says with a grain of salt? I have thought 'yes' - you can do that without harboring ill will or seeking revenge and that would be forgiveness. but yesterday i was told that just the fact of acknowledging something like that in a person and dealing with them accordingly is being unforgiving.

to me, that is an issue of trust rather than forgiveness. who is correct?

(this post has been edited to make it shorter and less personal)

This makes me think of when I was raising my children.They would disobey me and I would correct them, tell them I love them and forgive them, only to have them do it again.

Luk 17:3 Take heed to yourselves. If your brother trespasses against you, rebuke him. And if he repents, forgive him.

Luk 17:4 And if he trespasses against you seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turns again to you, saying, I repent, you shall forgive him.

Very true but you don't have to set yourself up to be hurt again by the person right?

[Eddie B]

does forgiveness include forgetfulness?

obviously we can't willfully forget. but if you take into account the past actions of people when dealing with them, is this being unforgiving? for example, if you have a relationship with someone that regularly lies, would you take what that person says with a grain of salt? I have thought 'yes' - you can do that without harboring ill will or seeking revenge and that would be forgiveness. but yesterday i was told that just the fact of acknowledging something like that in a person and dealing with them accordingly is being unforgiving.

to me, that is an issue of trust rather than forgiveness. who is correct?

(this post has been edited to make it shorter and less personal)

This makes me think of when I was raising my children.They would disobey me and I would correct them, tell them I love them and forgive them, only to have them do it again.

Luk 17:3 Take heed to yourselves. If your brother trespasses against you, rebuke him. And if he repents, forgive him.

Luk 17:4 And if he trespasses against you seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turns again to you, saying, I repent, you shall forgive him.

Very true but you don't have to set yourself up to be hurt again by the person right?

When your child hurts you through their disobedience, over and over as they are growing up, if you don't LOVE them, you will have a hard time forgiving them. The same thing is true in the family of God, if we don't have the love of Christ ruling in our hearts we will not be able to forgive over and over. It is no mistake that God puts people in our lives to give us the opportunity to learn how to love one another.

Mat 5:44 But I say to you, Love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who despitefully use you and persecute you,

Mat 5:45 so that you may become sons of your Father in Heaven. For He makes His sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.

Mat 5:46 For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax-collectors do the same?

Joh 15:13 No one has greater love than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

Rom 13:10 Love works no ill to its neighbor, therefore love is the fulfilling of the Law.

Eph 4:2 with all lowliness and meekness, with long-suffering, forbearing one another in love,

Eph 5:2 And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us, and has given Himself for us as an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet smelling savor.

[ColleenLovesMischief]

does forgiveness include forgetfulness?

obviously we can't willfully forget. but if you take into account the past actions of people when dealing with them, is this being unforgiving? for example, if you have a relationship with someone that regularly lies, would you take what that person says with a grain of salt? I have thought 'yes' - you can do that without harboring ill will or seeking revenge and that would be forgiveness. but yesterday i was told that just the fact of acknowledging something like that in a person and dealing with them accordingly is being unforgiving.

to me, that is an issue of trust rather than forgiveness. who is correct?

(this post has been edited to make it shorter and less personal)

This makes me think of when I was raising my children.They would disobey me and I would correct them, tell them I love them and forgive them, only to have them do it again.

Luk 17:3 Take heed to yourselves. If your brother trespasses against you, rebuke him. And if he repents, forgive him.

Luk 17:4 And if he trespasses against you seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turns again to you, saying, I repent, you shall forgive him.

Very true but you don't have to set yourself up to be hurt again by the person right?

When your child hurts you through their disobedience, over and over as they are growing up, if you don't LOVE them, you will have a hard time forgiving them. The same thing is true in the family of God, if we don't have the love of Christ ruling in our hearts we will not be able to forgive over and over. It is no mistake that God puts people in our lives to give us the opportunity to learn how to love one another.

Mat 5:44 But I say to you, Love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who despitefully use you and persecute you,

Mat 5:45 so that you may become sons of your Father in Heaven. For He makes His sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.

Mat 5:46 For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax-collectors do the same?

Joh 15:13 No one has greater love than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

Rom 13:10 Love works no ill to its neighbor, therefore love is the fulfilling of the Law.

Eph 4:2 with all lowliness and meekness, with long-suffering, forbearing one another in love,

Eph 5:2 And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us, and has given Himself for us as an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet smelling savor.

I didn't say not to love or forgive them...I said not to set yourself up for the same pain all over again. Say if someone was stealing from you would you allow them to continue? Would you allow your children to destroy trust and immediately give it back. Better yet if someone is abusing you and you forgive them do you alow yourself into a situation that they could kill you?

[Eddie B]

Quote Godslove26

I didn't say not to love or forgive them...I said not to set yourself up for the same pain all over again. Say if someone was stealing from you would you allow them to continue? Would you allow your children to destroy trust and immediately give it back. Better yet if someone is abusing you and you forgive them do you alow yourself into a situation that they could kill you?

Of course I would not allow someone to continue to steal or abuse me without doing something about it to correct the situation.Meaning if someone stole from me I would see to it they couldn't do it again. If someone was abusing me I would get free from that abuse.

What I'm saying is that when we love others we will get hurt again and again in many different ways. If our love is true love that comes from God and is based on how much God loves us, then we are able to love others more freely because we are not dependent mainly on people loving us, but on God loving us.

Edited September 7, 2007 by Eddie B

[eric]

Fraught, sister, you have just opened a very important question from a christian perspective and one that needs a lot of study.

You can't just quote a verse or two and say there you are. You have to ask yourself eg Who is forgiving whom and what is the reason that they need forgiveness, How serious is the reason for the need of forgiveness and so on.

I, myself think a good place to start, is the place where we first read about it,in the book of Matthew at the sermon on the mount. after the beatitudes when He was teaching His disciples how to pray.6:12. forgive us our debts as we also forgive our debtors,( some m/s say tresspasses).

It seems like, to me, that you have to first ask the Father forgive us of our own transgressions, before we can ask the Father to forgive us........well we do that the moment of our repentance and acceptance of Christ as Our Saviour. So my question is, from then on who do we forgive, believers or non believers who cause us grief. Do we as christians have to forgive the perps of Genocide, like Hussain, in order to be forgiven our own sins, to receive the rewards we are promised in eternity. before salvation.

For instance to all intents and purposes,I am a blood covered, spirit filled bible believing fundamentalist, yet I am glad that saddam got his just desserts, enemy of the God of the bible and worthy of God's full wrath and punishment. So if I dont forgive saddum do I lose the forgiveness obtained at my point of salvation?

Think about it and I'll be back tomorrow some more questions about forgiveness.

[patricia1]

Quote Godslove26

I didn't say not to love or forgive them...I said not to set yourself up for the same pain all over again. Say if someone was stealing from you would you allow them to continue? Would you allow your children to destroy trust and immediately give it back. Better yet if someone is abusing you and you forgive them do you alow yourself into a situation that they could kill you?

Of course I would not allow someone to continue to steal or abuse me without doing something about it to correct the situation.Meaning if someone stole from me I would see to it they couldn't do it again. If someone was abusing me I would get free from that abuse.

What I'm saying is that when we love others we will get hurt again and again in many different ways. If our love is true love that comes from God and is based on how much God loves us, then we are able to love others more freely because we are not dependent mainly on people loving us, but on God loving us.

we are to forgive seventy times seven but we are not to be stupid either. There are some who are pathological liars and do believe their lies to be true.. This is to be taken and prayed about. Somethings are good to forget. Sometimes one cannot. There seems to be different depths to forgiveness as well depending on the type of wound inflicted. There are many times I have forgiven something to only have it pop up at another time. Nothing wrong with the Holy Spirit doing inventory on the heart, making sure stones are removed and the mess that happens doesn't happen again. I hate lies and will rarely trust a liar until Jesus says they have been renewed!!!