The Sermon on the Mount

[Guest Greg Davies]

In response to Cardcaptor assertion that perfection like Jesus is not possible:

Will you call God a liar? Will you say that if He commands us to be perfect as He is perfect (Matt.5:48), that He is just teasing us and calling us to a standard that is unattainable?

What do you think it means to be "conformed to the Image of His Son" (Rom 8:29)? What do you think it means to "be like Him" (I John 3:2).

Ephesians 4:13 says we all are to come "unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ". Don't you believe Him? Will you water down the Word to fit some false sense of humility. It is not arrogant to believe God and say "Be it unto me according to your word".

Will we limit God and His purposes to restore man to his created destiny: to be crowned with glory and honor and have dominion over all the works of His hands (Psalm 8)? Jesus didn't die for us for anything less than to make us perfect in Him.

If you think Jesus's agony was just to save us from hell so we could go to heaven, your concept of God's purposes are sadly small and they are not fitting to the greatness and majesty of our God who says in Eph 5:27 that He will have a "glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle" and that it should be holy and without blemish. Bless God Who is faithful to His word and will bring it to pass.

I apologize for the strident tone of this post. But I am passionate about believing God's promises and I won't diminish them or doubt His abilty to perform them. Of course, I'm not suggesting we will be equal to Jesus. He is God the Son, but we are His brethren. Greg.

Edited September 20, 2007 by Greg Davies

[WayneB]

What does this mean?

Jesus was simply pointing them (and us) to the ONE and only source of true righteousness.

Psalm 85:11 Truth springs from the earth, And righteousness looks down from heaven.

Remember... Job was a "blameless and upright" man but he did not experience true righteousness until he came face to face with his Redeemer. Being good is a worldly concept... having true righteousness is a divine gift of God by GRACE through FAITH.

[Phil.2:12]

Matthew 7

21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

What does this mean? I know that performing miracles in the name of Jesus alone isn't enough, but wouldn't someone doing these things need to truly have faith that they are saved by Jesus?

Thanks everyone.

A subject that not many Christians have explored is the power Satan has to prophesy, drive out demons, and perform many miracles. Of course, all this demonic activity is simply a counterfeit of what God does and its purpose is to convince you to focus on the wonders you are seeing and not on God. Many a religious charlatan has led the gullible astray as they become convinced that what their leader is doing is from God when, in fact, it is from Satan. To understand the power of Satan in these areas more clearly, may I recommend the book "The beautiful side of evil" written by Johanna Michaelson, Hal Lindsey's sister-in-law.

Johanna and her sister were the daughters of missionaries who ministered to people south of our border. Johanna saw a local "healer" do amazing things that she was convinced had to come from God. So she began to study with this "healer" in order to also be used by God in a healing ministry. The further she went in her apprenticeship, the more convinced she became that the "healer" was not powered by the Holy Spirit, but by a demonic spirit. She left the "healer" and recounted her experiences in the book "The beautiful side of evil".

Yes, it is possible for Satan to counterfeit the things of God. However, Satan cannot counterfeit God's love for us. All that Satan does brings glory only to him, never to God. Because of Satan's ability to counterfeit the works of God (except for His love), Jesus told those professing to be His followers based solely on their miraculous works that only those who did the will of His Father would enter Heaven. These followers were being rebuked by Jesus because they had never acepted Him as their Lord and Savior, depending on their satanic works to earn their way into Heaven. Besides not having accepted Jesus as their Savior, thereby failing to do the will of His Father in heaven, they were not obeying the Father's will in all the miraculous things they did. For they were powered by a demonic spirit, not the Holy Spirit and Jesus knew this.

I wonder just how many individuals who claim to be "Christian" will hear these very words recorded in Matthew 7, "Depart from Me, for I never knew you".Just because someone claims to know Christ and be more than willing to bear the name "Christian" doesn't mean that Jesus knows them. He only knows those who have accepted Him as their Lord and Savior.

[Guest Greg Davies]

A subject that not many Christians have explored is the power Satan has to prophesy, drive out demons, and perform many miracles. .

If you are suggesting that the individuals referred to in Matt 7 are satanic and were never saved and filled with the Holy Spirit, think again.

This prophecy by Jesus Himself, declares that these indviduals referred to Him as Lord and did the miracles in His name. Jesus never contradicts these assertions and we should not assume they are not true, but we should take Jesus's words for what they say.

The Matt 7 scriptures don't contrast the saved with the unsaved but rather the difference between those who have received Him as Saviour and have operated in the gifts of the Spirit with false motives, not doing the Lord's will, and those whose motives were godly, in accordance with His will.

Notice Jesus's conclusion about how a man builds a house on sand or rock and compare this with I Cor 3:10-15 for an interesting insight. God bless, Greg.

[tsth]

Jesus makes it VERY CLEAR, what the destinguishing factor is in Matt. 7:23, the sad part is, that this portion of the text is not focused on, many times, it's just completely omitted:

Matthew 7:23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'

We REALLY should think about what that means.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Phil.2:12]

A subject that not many Christians have explored is the power Satan has to prophesy, drive out demons, and perform many miracles. .

If you are suggesting that the individuals referred to in Matt 7 are satanic and were never saved and filled with the Holy Spirit, think again.

This prophecy by Jesus Himself, declares that these indviduals referred to Him as Lord and did the miracles in His name. Jesus never contradicts these assertions and we should not assume they are not true, but we should take Jesus's words for what they say.

The Matt 7 scriptures don't contrast the saved with the unsaved but rather the difference between those who have received Him as Saviour and have operated in the gifts of the Spirit with false motives, not doing the Lord's will, and those whose motives were godly, in accordance with His will.

Notice Jesus's conclusion about how a man builds a house on sand or rock and compare this with I Cor 3:10-15 for an interesting insight. God bless, Greg.

Good advice, Greg. I have rethought the spiritual condition of those that Jesus is addressing and the following is my reasoning concerning this topic.

First of all, keeping the verses in context, we find Jesus telling His disciples (verse 15) that they are to beware of false prophets who will come to them in sheep's clothing but on the inside they are ravening wolves. Now, I seriously doubt that these ravening wolves in sheep's clothing are Spirit filled believers in Jesus. If they were, they would be sheep, not wolves in sheep's clothing, willing and ready to devour any sheep that they can.

Then Jesus (in verse 16) begins to talk about knowing a person's true spiritual nature by the fruit they bear, winding up in verse 20 saying that "by their fruits ye shall know them". Jesus then tells His disciples that "Not every one that sayeth Lord, Lord, shall enter into the Kingdom of Heaven, but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in Heaven" (Verse 21). Clearly, then, having reviewed the context of Matthew 7:21-23, it is clear that those Jesus was referring to in verses 21 and 22 are not believers in Him by any measure and are certainly not filled with the Holy Spirit.

Now, how do we know the audience Jesus was sharing these truths with were His disciples? You have to go back to the begining of the Sermon on the Mount which is found in Matthew 5:1. The entire Sermon comprises three complete chapters of Matthew's book, chapters 5, 6, and 7. It was delivered on the side of the mount (actually a large hill) because the multitude that thronged around Jesus wouldn't permit Jesus to have any space to teach from. So Jesus made His own space by climbing up the side of this large hill (think Allegheny mountains instead of the Rockies) and then called His disciples to to Him (Matthew 5:1). Now He had the teaching space He needed for His disciples, yet was still close enough to the multitude that they could easily hear the teaching He gave His disciples.

Please Greg, try to keep the verses you comment on in context. It prevents many an embarrasing situation.

[Eddie B]

1st ? Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

True righteousness comes from God by faith in Christ and makes us new creatures of a divine nature. It is only then as we live by faith in Christ can we from a new heart express the righteousness of God in our daily lives.

Phi 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

2nd ? Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

We never attain perfection here on earth, but we are to by faith strive towards it. To me it means to grow in maturing as a Christian more and more to have the mind of Christ.

Phi 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

Phi 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,

Phi 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

Phi 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

3rd ? Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Many people profess to be Christians and yet they are not, because they have never trusted Christ alone for there salvation.

Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Then their are those who suppose themselves to be Christians because they have said a prayer, or think that some verbal expressions of acknowedgement we save them, but have know prove of Christ in their daily lives.

Tit 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Jam 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

[Guest Greg Davies]

First of all, keeping the verses in context, we find Jesus telling His disciples (verse 15) that they are to beware of false prophets who will come to them in sheep's clothing but on the inside they are ravening wolves. Now, I seriously doubt that these ravening wolves in sheep's clothing are Spirit filled believers in Jesus. If they were, they would be sheep, not wolves in sheep's clothing, willing and ready to devour any sheep that they can.

Then Jesus (in verse 16) begins to talk about knowing a person's true spiritual nature by the fruit they bear, winding up in verse 20 saying that "by their fruits ye shall know them".[/i

We can certainly agree to disagree on this, but let me comment on your points quoted above. If by fruits, in this context, you mean the result of one's ministy, i.e. people saved, healed, delivered, ect., then these "lawless ones" (workers of iniquity)had real fruit. They declare this to Jesus and He never contradicts them. Jesus just calls them "lawless".

What this speaks to me is (and this brings in the ravening wolves issue) that these individuals operated in the gifts of the Spirit (they had the requisite fruit) and therfore were filled with the Holy Spirit, but their motives were wrong. This is the "inside" or the heart issues. This is why Jesus calls them "lawless". They were not under Godly authority. They were a law unto themselves and not properly alligned in the Kingdom.

God's gifts are without repentance. Sadly, there are ministers who start out well and end poorly.

Also, one more thought, parables and allegories are not to be taken literally. They are illustrations of a truth, not the truth in and of themselves. Greg.

[Guest Greg Davies]

2nd ? Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

We never attain perfection here on earth, but we are to by faith strive towards it. To me it means to grow in maturing as a Christian more and more to have the mind of Christ.

I don't know why so many Christians have such hard time accepting the clear biblical teaching on perfection.

Eph 4:13 gives us a description of perfection: the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ.

I John 3:2 says we will be like Him.

Rom 8:29 declares that we are to be conformed to Jesus's Image.

Eph 5:27 promises us that Jesus is returning for a church that is without spot or wrinkle, a glorious church.

And finally, Rev 5:10 tell us where we will rule and reign with Christ....ON THE EARTH! Glory to God!

We needn't discount God's promises because they may seem impossible. With man, these things are impossible but with God all things are possible and I'm going to take Him at His word.

[Eddie B]

2nd ? Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

We never attain perfection here on earth, but we are to by faith strive towards it. To me it means to grow in maturing as a Christian more and more to have the mind of Christ.

I don't know why so many Christians have such hard time accepting the clear biblical teaching on perfection.

Eph 4:13 gives us a description of perfection: the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ.

I John 3:2 says we will be like Him.

Rom 8:29 declares that we are to be conformed to Jesus's Image.

Eph 5:27 promises us that Jesus is returning for a church that is without spot or wrinkle, a glorious church.

And finally, Rev 5:10 tell us where we will rule and reign with Christ....ON THE EARTH! Glory to God!

We needn't discount God's promises because they may seem impossible. With man, these things are impossible but with God all things are possible and I'm going to take Him at His word.

It seems you are disagreeing with my understanding of being perfect in Christ(justification) and becoming perfect(maturing to be more and more like Christ(santification).

The verses you quoted state my position on perfection, so Iam confused by what you think being perfect means?