MorningGlory Posted September 17, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.08 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted September 17, 2007 I've read the hate crime bill(s) in question SEVERAL times. Unless you commit a felony which is a Crime of Violence, in the context of attempts at bodily harm by using firearms, explosives, or fire, then its not a hate crime. The bills only apply to Violent crimes. It has nothing to do with preaching about homosexuality. Unless of course, your pastor beats, shoots, sets fire to, or uses an explosive device gainst a homosexual as part of the sermon. http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=s110-1105 Read it for yourselves. And the purpose of a hate crimes bill is?? Its stupid. If you send a man to the chair for murdering a homosexual, then what is the purpose of a hate crime bill. What do we do, bury him, dig him up and fry him again!? Isn't our laws against violence enough? the only reason for hate crime bill is to strip us of our first amendment rights. Once you silence free speech, you can eliminate religion. then they can take your firearms cause you won't be able to speak otu against it, then goes your 4th, 5th amendment rights, then your 9th, 10th, 14th amendment rights and by that time you might as well scrap whats left cause you won't be able to defend the constitution. The purpose of a hate crime bill is to protect minorities. It's not a very good protection but it's a start. I still don't see how this bill curtails freedom of speech. Please explain that. Again....there is NO LAW against saying anything as long as it's not threatening to harm someone or attempting to incite violence. Your logic escapes me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zadok Rox Posted September 17, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 274 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/19/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/12/1972 Share Posted September 17, 2007 The purpose of a hate crime bill is to protect minorities. It's not a very good protection but it's a start. I still don't see how this bill curtails freedom of speech. Please explain that. Again....there is NO LAW against saying anything as long as it's not threatening to harm someone or attempting to incite violence. Your logic escapes me. The fear is that some people will point at a preacher who gives a sermon that includes how homosexuality is wrong and state, "That preacher is inciting violence by his statement that being gay is evil. He's producing an atmosphere of hate." Then here comes the cops and locks up the preacher for 'hate crimes'. Then here comes the civil lawyers to sue the church into the poor house. Even if the preacher is found not guilty and the church wins the civil trial, the legal costs would bankrupt the average church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 Hate Crime, Who could believe Yeah! Who Would Of Thunk It! Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.Matthew 24:9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eliyahuw Posted September 18, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,263 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/11/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/17/1961 Share Posted September 18, 2007 I've read the hate crime bill(s) in question SEVERAL times. Unless you commit a felony which is a Crime of Violence, in the context of attempts at bodily harm by using firearms, explosives, or fire, then its not a hate crime. The bills only apply to Violent crimes. It has nothing to do with preaching about homosexuality. Unless of course, your pastor beats, shoots, sets fire to, or uses an explosive device gainst a homosexual as part of the sermon. http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=s110-1105 Read it for yourselves. And the purpose of a hate crimes bill is?? Its stupid. If you send a man to the chair for murdering a homosexual, then what is the purpose of a hate crime bill. What do we do, bury him, dig him up and fry him again!? Isn't our laws against violence enough? the only reason for hate crime bill is to strip us of our first amendment rights. Once you silence free speech, you can eliminate religion. then they can take your firearms cause you won't be able to speak otu against it, then goes your 4th, 5th amendment rights, then your 9th, 10th, 14th amendment rights and by that time you might as well scrap whats left cause you won't be able to defend the constitution. The purpose of a hate crime bill is to protect minorities. It's not a very good protection but it's a start. I still don't see how this bill curtails freedom of speech. Please explain that. Again....there is NO LAW against saying anything as long as it's not threatening to harm someone or attempting to incite violence. Your logic escapes me. Protect them from what??? Crime?? damn i want someone to protect me from the minority that breaks into my home and tries to molest my family! shoot wheres the worthless, scum of the earth, needs to be shot bill that protects me!?? sheesh. thats what laws are for. We have laws against assault, murder rape robbery ect. Who cares if their a minority. Crime is crime. It doesn't matter if your a minority or not. it makes no distinction. Why give anyone special preferential treatment. As far as destroying freedom of speech, this bill is the start, it won't be long before someoen will want to stifle a preacher, or someone else for making a statement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted September 18, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.21 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted September 18, 2007 I found this: SEC. 4. SUPPORT FOR CRIMINAL INVESTIGATIONS AND PROSECUTIONS BY STATE, LOCAL, AND TRIBAL LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIALS. (a) Assistance Other Than Financial Assistance- (1) IN GENERAL- At the request of State, local, or Tribal law enforcement agency, the Attorney General may provide technical, forensic, prosecutorial, or any other form of assistance in the criminal investigation or prosecution of any crime that-- (A) constitutes a crime of violence; (B) constitutes a felony under the State, local, or Tribal laws; and Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted September 18, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.08 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted September 18, 2007 The purpose of a hate crime bill is to protect minorities. It's not a very good protection but it's a start. I still don't see how this bill curtails freedom of speech. Please explain that. Again....there is NO LAW against saying anything as long as it's not threatening to harm someone or attempting to incite violence. Your logic escapes me. The fear is that some people will point at a preacher who gives a sermon that includes how homosexuality is wrong and state, "That preacher is inciting violence by his statement that being gay is evil. He's producing an atmosphere of hate." Then here comes the cops and locks up the preacher for 'hate crimes'. Then here comes the civil lawyers to sue the church into the poor house. Even if the preacher is found not guilty and the church wins the civil trial, the legal costs would bankrupt the average church. I understand the fear, the bible speaks of persecution after all, but the bill just doesn't allow for any of that. I'd like someone to show me where in the bill there is a provision for arresting people for opinions. Won't happen because....it isn't there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eliyahuw Posted September 18, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,263 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/11/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/17/1961 Share Posted September 18, 2007 The purpose of a hate crime bill is to protect minorities. It's not a very good protection but it's a start. I still don't see how this bill curtails freedom of speech. Please explain that. Again....there is NO LAW against saying anything as long as it's not threatening to harm someone or attempting to incite violence. Your logic escapes me. The fear is that some people will point at a preacher who gives a sermon that includes how homosexuality is wrong and state, "That preacher is inciting violence by his statement that being gay is evil. He's producing an atmosphere of hate." Then here comes the cops and locks up the preacher for 'hate crimes'. Then here comes the civil lawyers to sue the church into the poor house. Even if the preacher is found not guilty and the church wins the civil trial, the legal costs would bankrupt the average church. I understand the fear, the bible speaks of persecution after all, but the bill just doesn't allow for any of that. I'd like someone to show me where in the bill there is a provision for arresting people for opinions. Won't happen because....it isn't there. they said that abortion would never be legalized either! This is allowing attacks on the constitution to be set up in future legislation. We should not be creating thought crime legislation. Why do we need this so called protection for minorities? whats the purpose? Are you saying that the law that covers this crime isn't enough?? IF its not enough then what about us!???If itsnot enough for a minority then its too weak to protect us. We should make the law tougher, not create preferential laws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted September 18, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.08 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted September 18, 2007 The purpose of a hate crime bill is to protect minorities. It's not a very good protection but it's a start. I still don't see how this bill curtails freedom of speech. Please explain that. Again....there is NO LAW against saying anything as long as it's not threatening to harm someone or attempting to incite violence. Your logic escapes me. The fear is that some people will point at a preacher who gives a sermon that includes how homosexuality is wrong and state, "That preacher is inciting violence by his statement that being gay is evil. He's producing an atmosphere of hate." Then here comes the cops and locks up the preacher for 'hate crimes'. Then here comes the civil lawyers to sue the church into the poor house. Even if the preacher is found not guilty and the church wins the civil trial, the legal costs would bankrupt the average church. I understand the fear, the bible speaks of persecution after all, but the bill just doesn't allow for any of that. I'd like someone to show me where in the bill there is a provision for arresting people for opinions. Won't happen because....it isn't there. they said that abortion would never be legalized either! This is allowing attacks on the constitution to be set up in future legislation. We should not be creating thought crime legislation. Why do we need this so called protection for minorities? whats the purpose? Are you saying that the law that covers this crime isn't enough?? IF its not enough then what about us!???If itsnot enough for a minority then its too weak to protect us. We should make the law tougher, not create preferential laws. No, this bill seeks stiffer penalties for hate crimes; i.e. an act of violence toward someone because of their race, religion, nationality, sexual orientation, gender, age or whatever. NOT penalties for thinking of doing these things. Nor for talking publicly about minorities in a negative way. The only exception would be inciting to commit violence and, I'd have to say, that few preachers do that. Without laws to protect minorities from some segments of the population we would still be seeing lynchings! And, come on, how would a law that regulated thought be enforced? Would we have a Psychic Swat team??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zadok Rox Posted September 18, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 274 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/19/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/12/1972 Share Posted September 18, 2007 The purpose of a hate crime bill is to protect minorities. It's not a very good protection but it's a start. I still don't see how this bill curtails freedom of speech. Please explain that. Again....there is NO LAW against saying anything as long as it's not threatening to harm someone or attempting to incite violence. Your logic escapes me. The fear is that some people will point at a preacher who gives a sermon that includes how homosexuality is wrong and state, "That preacher is inciting violence by his statement that being gay is evil. He's producing an atmosphere of hate." Then here comes the cops and locks up the preacher for 'hate crimes'. Then here comes the civil lawyers to sue the church into the poor house. Even if the preacher is found not guilty and the church wins the civil trial, the legal costs would bankrupt the average church. I understand the fear, the bible speaks of persecution after all, but the bill just doesn't allow for any of that. I'd like someone to show me where in the bill there is a provision for arresting people for opinions. Won't happen because....it isn't there. We have, but thankfully you interpret the law correctly. However, it's vague enough to where a judge can interpret a sermon against homosexuality as attempting to incite violence. Sadly, some judges cannot lay aside their personal feelings when it comes to interpretting the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtwo Posted September 18, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,144 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/24/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/18/1978 Share Posted September 18, 2007 The purpose of a hate crime bill is to protect minorities. It's not a very good protection but it's a start. I still don't see how this bill curtails freedom of speech. Please explain that. Again....there is NO LAW against saying anything as long as it's not threatening to harm someone or attempting to incite violence. Your logic escapes me. The fear is that some people will point at a preacher who gives a sermon that includes how homosexuality is wrong and state, "That preacher is inciting violence by his statement that being gay is evil. He's producing an atmosphere of hate." Then here comes the cops and locks up the preacher for 'hate crimes'. Then here comes the civil lawyers to sue the church into the poor house. Even if the preacher is found not guilty and the church wins the civil trial, the legal costs would bankrupt the average church. I understand the fear, the bible speaks of persecution after all, but the bill just doesn't allow for any of that. I'd like someone to show me where in the bill there is a provision for arresting people for opinions. Won't happen because....it isn't there. they said that abortion would never be legalized either! This is allowing attacks on the constitution to be set up in future legislation. We should not be creating thought crime legislation. Why do we need this so called protection for minorities? whats the purpose? Are you saying that the law that covers this crime isn't enough?? IF its not enough then what about us!???If itsnot enough for a minority then its too weak to protect us. We should make the law tougher, not create preferential laws. No, this bill seeks stiffer penalties for hate crimes; i.e. an act of violence toward someone because of their race, religion, nationality, sexual orientation, gender, age or whatever. NOT penalties for thinking of doing these things. Nor for talking publicly about minorities in a negative way. The only exception would be inciting to commit violence and, I'd have to say, that few preachers do that. Without laws to protect minorities from some segments of the population we would still be seeing lynchings! And, come on, how would a law that regulated thought be enforced? Would we have a Psychic Swat team??? We already -have- penalties for doing these things. Lynchings didn't stop happening because we made stiffer penalties for killing black people... they stopped because we enforced the laws that already existed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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