Question for all you Christians

[nebula]

I would put more faith in the letters written by Paul, the latest surviving of which can be dated to around 58 AD. And Paul makes no concrete mention of a physical rise of Christ.

Oh really?

1 Corinthians 15:12-22

12 Now if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen. 14 And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty. 15 Yes, and we are found false witnesses of God, because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ, whom He did not raise up--if in fact the dead do not rise. 16 For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen. 17 And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins! 18 Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. 19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable.

20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.

2 Timothy 2:8-9

8 Remember that Jesus Christ, of the seed of David, was raised from the dead according to my gospel, 9 for which I suffer trouble as an evildoer, even to the point of chains; but the word of God is not chained.

Romans 4:24 - but also for us. It shall be imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead,

Romans 4:25 - who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification.

Romans 6:4 - Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Romans 6:9 - knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him.

Romans 8:11 - But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

Romans 10:9 - that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

1Corinthians 6:14 - And God both raised up the Lord and will also raise us up by His power.

2Corinthians 4:14 - knowing that He who raised up the Lord Jesus will also raise us up with Jesus, and will present us with you.

Galatians 1:1 - Paul, an apostle (not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father who raised Him from the dead),

Ephesians 1:20 - which He worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places,

[nebula]

So, yes, the body was missing. I never said it wasn't. Just because a body was no longer in a tomb does not mean that it was re-animated and walked out. I think a better point to put emphasis on would be the fact that the large stone had been rolled away; it would have taken several fully grown men to move the thing. It takes just one person to move a body.

And how was the stone rolled away?

It was guarded by Roman soldiers with the Emporer's seal. Any Roman centurian who slept on his watch and let such a seal get broken would pay for it with his life. Anyone group of people who would have rolled the stone away would have had to kill the Roman guards first.

Is there any indication that the Roman guards were killed?

[Guest Greg Davies]

So what does Ehrenkreuz mean?

[Ehrenkreuz]

Oh really?

At no point does Paul mention a dead body walking, a re-animated corpse etc.., or anything of the sort.

1 Corinthians 15:44-46, "It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual."

And I'm pretty sure I'm not taking this out of context either.. Not 100% sure.

Edited September 19, 2007 by Ehrenkreuz

[Ehrenkreuz]

So what does Ehrenkreuz mean?

I wasn't even trying to deny the resurrection, I just wanted to see if anyone at all was open to the suggestion that Jesus didn't rise in the flesh, but purely in spirit. That he appeared to Mary and Mary, and the eleven apostles in visions and not in a body. I failed miserabely as you can easily bear witness.

It just occured to me how much easier I could have swallowed the scriptures if they hadn't tried to tell me Jesus Christ had brought his three-day old corpse back to life and walked around it, but still managed to vanish in and out of middair and was unrecognizeable to the people who were closest to him in his life... But I understand that the resurrection was fundamental to the Christian faith. No resurrection, no religion.

So that's how my theory came about. That's all it was, a theory.

But you guys are like the Muslims, not much room for interpretation.

Very defensive in the face of scrutiny.

Although I'll concede that you won't see a Christian hijacker, or one in a dynamite vest.

From the outside I can see that there are fewer differences between Islam and Christianity then you would like to believe, I'm sure.

Edited September 20, 2007 by Ehrenkreuz

[Ehrenkreuz]

So, yes, the body was missing. I never said it wasn't. Just because a body was no longer in a tomb does not mean that it was re-animated and walked out. I think a better point to put emphasis on would be the fact that the large stone had been rolled away; it would have taken several fully grown men to move the thing. It takes just one person to move a body.

And how was the stone rolled away?

It was guarded by Roman soldiers with the Emporer's seal. Any Roman centurian who slept on his watch and let such a seal get broken would pay for it with his life. Anyone group of people who would have rolled the stone away would have had to kill the Roman guards first.

Is there any indication that the Roman guards were killed?

Is there any indication that they were not?

Edited September 20, 2007 by Ehrenkreuz

[Scarletprayers]

So what does Ehrenkreuz mean?

its a Medal of Honor in Germany, if I remember correctly.

[Scarletprayers]

So, yes, the body was missing. I never said it wasn't. Just because a body was no longer in a tomb does not mean that it was re-animated and walked out. I think a better point to put emphasis on would be the fact that the large stone had been rolled away; it would have taken several fully grown men to move the thing. It takes just one person to move a body.

And how was the stone rolled away?

It was guarded by Roman soldiers with the Emporer's seal. Any Roman centurian who slept on his watch and let such a seal get broken would pay for it with his life. Anyone group of people who would have rolled the stone away would have had to kill the Roman guards first.

Is there any indication that the Roman guards were killed?

Is there any indication that they were not?

Yeah, according to the BIBLE, they were still alive and were told to say that the followers of Jesus came and stole the body.

[Ehrenkreuz]

So what does Ehrenkreuz mean?

its a Medal of Honor in Germany, if I remember correctly.

You do remember correctly. Handed out during the Nazi era of Third Reich to citizens who displayed great courage/contributed strongly to the war effort.

[Ehrenkreuz]

So, yes, the body was missing. I never said it wasn't. Just because a body was no longer in a tomb does not mean that it was re-animated and walked out. I think a better point to put emphasis on would be the fact that the large stone had been rolled away; it would have taken several fully grown men to move the thing. It takes just one person to move a body.

And how was the stone rolled away?

It was guarded by Roman soldiers with the Emporer's seal. Any Roman centurian who slept on his watch and let such a seal get broken would pay for it with his life. Anyone group of people who would have rolled the stone away would have had to kill the Roman guards first.

Is there any indication that the Roman guards were killed?

Is there any indication that they were not?

Yeah, according to the BIBLE, they were still alive and were told to say that the followers of Jesus came and stole the body.

Can you reference any text other then the BIBLE to back that up?