Hate Al Gore all you want. Global warming is real

[forrestkc]

I have found reading this thread extremely disturbing.

Me too but for different reasons. My hope isn't in man.

It is arrogant to think we have any control over this planet. If everyone became as obsessive as forrest is, we'd make no impact in time for the alarmist scenarios we've been presented by psuedo scientists. There have been scientists who refute the exaggerations of Gore. I don't think anyone really knows the future and my hope is not in science either.

forrest has been wrong on many occasions

Wrong about what?

[forrestkc]

I am new to this forum and I decided to read this thread. Thanks to Forrestkc for keeping his cool when faced with unchristian responses.

I noticed in reading the threads that Forrestkc quotes real scientific studies.

I noticed that NONE of the deniers have managed to find scientific studies to back up their claims. They talk like the studies are there, they talk as if they have just read the studies, they say to just dig a little deeper and you will see. Problem is, one can't find this stuff in the Bible and finding peer reviewed scientific studies negating that we are in trouble is just as difficult to find if not impossible.

Have no fear Forrestkc, if they could find one, yes, only one peer reviewed scientific study, they would have it up here in a hurry. I don't mean quoting newspaper articles written with oil money with opinions discrediting real studies with innuendos. I mean a real study in a peer reviewed scientific publication denying the findings. The more I read the bantering the more it sounds like creationist arguments versus peer reviewed science.

I just came back from a conference on the environment and the evidence is so overwhelming that to deny it is to bury one's head in the sand. And you know what shows when one's head is in the sand!

I have found reading this thread extremely disturbing.

And anyone who believes that God is in charge and that we should relax should think about those who used the Bible to defend slavery, or used the Bible to defend the inquisition, or used the Bible to defend the holocaust, or used the Bible to defend the evangelizing of natives by putting them in residential schools, or...

Who exactly stopped these monstrous atrocities against humankind? Certainly not God. It was people like us who fought against all odds. If you think it is all planned by God, read your Bible again with a new eye.

My opinion.

Ninesided

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

The Green Gospel has at it's center mankind not God. It will Save no one.

Peace,

Dave

Well spoken, those that seek salvation through the environment are misguided.

Who is arguing that one can seek salvation through the environment?

I would then re-ask my questions ;

Grace to you,

I wanted to ask something.

As Christians how are we take these signs?

Should we look at them and yell the sky is falling?

Or should we see them as an ensample of the coming days of which we were warned would come?

In relation to the questions, another question.

How then should we react?

Peace,

Dave

[forrestkc]

Yeah, about as ridiculous as the Chicken Little Gore mentality.

Yes, look look look, they are going to destroy Israel again. Jerusalem this, West Bank that, the sky is falling. The Palestinians are going to get it, Oh no, Oh no........ Is it a sign of the end times???

Look, look, look everyone, its the Gay and Lesbian Agenda! Oh no, oh no, there is a war on Christmas. This nation will fall because they are saying Happy Holidays now at Walmart.

Oh no, an evil Mexican with a leaf blower. Everyone run. Terrorists can look like Mexicans. We need to build a 200 foot tall wall on the border!

No, the righties never run around like a bunch of Chicken Littles.

Guess you're not as serious about it as you would have us believe.

Please cite a single major conservation / environmental organization that is advocating that we all go off the grid.

More excuses so that you don't have to give up what you want others to give up. You're coming off more and more like Barbra Streisand...

When have I ever advocating everybody giving up their truck?

It seems like you have this idea, probably fostered by talk radio and other similar outlets, about what conservation is, but something tells me that it is all rather one sided.

[traveller]

Just a warning people - stay focused on the issue and not one another.

[forrestkc]

Grace to you,

I wanted to ask something.

As Christians how are we take these signs?

Should we look at them and yell the sky is falling?

Or should we see them as an ensample of the coming days of which we were warned would come?

In relation to the questions, another question.

How then should we react?

Peace,

Dave

I think there should be no difference between how Christians, Jews, Buddhists, or Atheists react to environmental issues. Should we right them off as just a prophetic sign? No. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but either way we should not bet the house on it. We should just look at things objectively and then try to figure out how best to address them.

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

I wanted to ask something.

As Christians how are we take these signs?

Should we look at them and yell the sky is falling?

Or should we see them as an ensample of the coming days of which we were warned would come?

In relation to the questions, another question.

How then should we react?

Peace,

Dave

I think there should be no difference between how Christians, Jews, Buddhists, or Atheists react to environmental issues. Should we right them off as just a prophetic sign? No. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but either way we should not bet the house on it. We should just look at things objectively and then try to figure out how best to address them.

Bless you Forrest,

The question is what we are focused on. Then according to our Focus, how we will react.

You can focus on the wind and the rain or you can focus on who the Lord of the wind and the rain is.

On the one hand you will sink on the other hand you will walk on the water.

It's the difference betwen the objective and the subjective.

Peace,

Dave

[forrestkc]

Bless you Forrest,

The question is what we are focused on. Then according to our Focus, how we will react.

You can focus on the wind and the rain or you can focus on who the Lord of the wind and the rain is.

On the one hand you will sink on the other hand you will walk on the water.

It's the difference betwen the objective and the subjective.

Peace,

Dave

I see the point you are making, but say if we looked at everything just like that. If we looked at terrorism like that, we would just say that its in God's hands, and not worry about doing anything about it ourselves right?

[Matthitjah]

Bless you Forrest,

The question is what we are focused on. Then according to our Focus, how we will react.

You can focus on the wind and the rain or you can focus on who the Lord of the wind and the rain is.

On the one hand you will sink on the other hand you will walk on the water.

It's the difference betwen the objective and the subjective.

Peace,

Dave

I see the point you are making, but say if we looked at everything just like that. If we looked at terrorism like that, we would just say that its in God's hands, and not worry about doing anything about it ourselves right?

Bless you bro,

Your talking about apples and oranges here. We do not have any control whatsoever over the wind and the rain or Global Warming.

We can and should deal with injustice in the world.

Peace,

Dave

[EricH]

Yes, look look look, they are going to destroy Israel again. Jerusalem this, West Bank that, the sky is falling. The Palestinians are going to get it, Oh no, Oh no........ Is it a sign of the end times???

Before you do too much mocking, consider this passage:

First, be aware of this: scoffers will come in the last days to scoff, following their own lusts, saying, "Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they have been since the beginning of creation." They willfully ignore this: long ago the heavens and the earth existed out of water and through water by the word of God. Through these the world of that time perished when it was flooded by water. But by the same word the present heavens and earth are held in store for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

2 Peter 3:3-7 HCSB

First, understand that I am not accusing you of being a scoffer. But I don't think it is an accident that in a thread centered on global warming, the topic has changed to what God will do at the end of days. The bible seems to indicate what we believe about the nature of the created order and our response to the end times are closely related. Notice that Peter, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, readily admits that people will make conclusions about God's involvement in the world (based on their empirical observations of reality). Peter ties this to peoples view of nature. He says that we should not be surprised that people have begun to scoff, because they have even misread nature. They have based their conclusions about nature soley on what can be empirically observed. According to Peter, their observations have not taken into account the greater reality that lies behind what we call nature. Nature exists because it was spoken into existence by the very words of God. As an example, Peter uses the time immediately after creation. There was much more water in the earth in those days, and people interpreted this as a matter of fact. They did not realize that God had a greater purpose behind this. He used the very things they had empirically observed as naturally occuring, to bring judgement. They missed it because their world view was based on what they could see.

It is the same today. Warming exists. The problem is that people who use the empirical method as their basis of reality ignore the greater reality that is behind nature. God has a greater purpose for the current creation. According to Peter, part of that purpose is a purging. This purging will destroy what we currently interpret as the ultimate reality, in favor of the true reality that is behind it.

This is echoed in Hebrews 11:

By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen has been made from things that are not visible.

Hebrews 11:3 HCSB

The delay in the end that many find as a source for scoffing is actually motivated by God's love and patience. This is what Peter said regarding this:

Dear friends, don't let this one thing escape you: with the Lord one day is like 1,000 years, and 1,000 years like one day. The Lord does not delay His promise, as some understand delay, but is patient with you, not wanting any to perish, but all to come to repentance. But the Day of the Lord will come like a thief; on that day the heavens will pass away with a loud noise, the elements will burn and be dissolved, and the earth and the works on it will be disclosed. Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, it is clear what sort of people you should be in holy conduct and godliness

2 Peter 3:8-11 HCSB

So what to make of all this:

1. What we observe empirically is not the final word in terms of what is real.

2. God is behind what we currently observe, and has a purpose that is beyind what we can observe.

3. Our empirical observations must be screened through the reality that is behind what we can observe empirically.

4. The fact that what God predicts hasn't happened already, is not a reason for scoffing, but a window to draw near to God in faith

5. The current creation is being prepared to give way to the reality behind it.

We should live our lives for the coming eternal reality, not what we think we see now. As Peter said:

Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard, so that you are not led away by the error of the immoral and fall from your own stability. But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.

2 Peter 3:17-18 HCSB