The Jewishness of Jesus and the Loss of the Sacred Writings

[systemstrike_7]

I always find myself coming back to this forum for my difficult questions. I respect the views of everyone here, and I am very happy to see that many of the same people are responding to the topics. I hope you will do the same here. I have been away for quite some time now, and I hope to get back in "the mix of things", simply because I have questions to ask. So here is my first question:

Why has Jesus become an American Protestant? If you look closely at the canonical gospel accounts (mainly Mark and Matthew) you will find that Jesus is thoroughly Jewish, maybe even Pharisaic. Christian tradition has us believe that the Pharisaic party was in direct opposition to Jesus of Nazareth. I believe this observation is a bit skewed. Jesus' beliefs were mainly Pharisaic, yet He merely CORRECTED the way in which the current Pharisees practiced their belief. With that said, Jesus was an observant Jew who was loyal to Yahweh and Yahweh's Law alone. So why have Christians stopped observing Jewish Law? Is it something Paul said? It very well could be, but don't forget who led the Jerusalem Church after Jesus' death: James, Jesus' brother. In the epistle of James, when He tells his readers that faith is dead without works, James is referring to the Law. Keeping the Law and the Festivals that God appointed forever and ever was still very important to Jesus of Nazareth. Paul, a Pharisee himself, never intended for the Law to be transgressed. He merely wanted to include the Gentiles in this hope of salvation. As most of ya'll probably know, Yeshua is translated as Salvation (that was just a side note). So should we not be obedient to God's word, regardless of when or where it was spoken? Jesus said, "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished." -Matthew 5:18-

To summarize my question: Why has Christianity become its own religion? Why have followers of Jesus Christ become deaf to the Law that Jesus Himself was loyal to? Should we not observe the festivals that God appointed us to celebrate? Should we not observe the very Law that Jesus gave His life to protect?

[Hunterpoet]

hello system,

Very good point and one that I have been struggling with myself for a very long time.

Recently I purchased " The complete jewish bible" It contains both the OT and NT and a very good preface.

In this preface it explains that in the early church, the first 70 years are so, that one could not tell the difference between a" christian" and a jew. Both attended temple and celebrated the festivals as described.

However, as time went on more gentials converted and these converts began to out number the jews. The problem, as explained in the preface, was that the new converts wanted G-d, but did not want to be recognized as jewish. So eventually they split off and began to worship G-d in a way that would keep them from "looking" like jews.

In my home for the past 12+ years we have not celebrated the secular christmas or easter, all of the secular symbolism for both these days is rooted in paganism. We do honor the birth of Christ and celebrate "Resurrection day".

Now I know this sounds like more compromise but please bear with me.

I also recently purchased a book titled " A Family Guide to the Biblical Holidays" Written by Robin Sampson and Linda Pierce. In her preface she explains the frustration that you and I are already familiar with and the grief given to her by fellow chrsitians when she began her research and practice. I tell you this so you will know that there are others who are thinking like you, which was a great relief for me.

I also visited the messeanic web-site(hope i spelled that correctly) and what an eye opener. I did send them an e-mail requesting info on a temple near me to get instruction, but have not recieved an answer as yet...I pretty much figure I'm on my own with finding the messeanics here in Cleveland.

My personal opinion is that the christain church has caused a great deal of trouble by trying not to be jewish. When we accept Christ do we not become sons of abraham and as you have pointed out Christ Himself held to the law and festivals.

I think if we start looking at ourselves as judeo-christian and realize it is more than just a religon and more a way of life, we just might get it right before G-d deceides it is time for Yeshua to return.

May G-ds blessings be upon you.

your brother in Christ.

[Tehilah Ba'Aretz]

One of the biggest problems with Christianity is that Jesus wasn't a Christian.

I've known David Stern (Author/translator of the Jewish Bible) for quite a number of years. Frankly, I have a few things that I'd like to talk to him about including his understanding of the Divine nature of Jesus. David is really one of the good guys in the world. The reality is that very few Christians speak or understand Hebrew which is the language of the Bible. A direct result of that lack is that few Bible college professors understand the context of the Bible. Add in the hundreds of years when only a tiny minority of all Christians read the Bible at all and the vast superstitions that were prevalent during the Dark Ages. Let's not forget that replacement theology feels nice. When you put it all together, you may find that there are believers who never have a chance to know Jesus as He really is until He tells them Himself. God's Holy Spirit may be the only one who speaks the truth to large numbers. I hope the Pastors will listen to Him. I hope they will follow His leading and teach their congregations. Unfortunately, that has not been the case in far too many churches.

[Sherman]

To summarize my question: Why has Christianity become its own religion? Why have followers of Jesus Christ become deaf to the Law that Jesus Himself was loyal to? Should we not observe the festivals that God appointed us to celebrate? Should we not observe the very Law that Jesus gave His life to protect?

Concerning Jesus being a Pharisee, I don't believe that He was. The primary reason for this is because he so directly opposed the Oral Law (traditions of the Elders). A foundational difference between the Pharisees and the Saducees was the Pharisees held that the Oral Law was as authoritative as the Written Law (Torah). The Sadducees did not believe the Oral Law was authoritative at all; but they also were very secular and did not believe in angels, spirits, or the ressurection of the dead. Jesus was not a Sadducee because He believed in the ressurection of the dead, angels, and demons. He was not a Pharisee because He rejected the Oral Law, the traditions of the Elders, as authoritative, calling it doctrines of men that nullify the word of God.

Concerning the First Great Divide in the church, the division between Jew and Gentile, it originally started with Satan sowing seeds of division through the Judiazing believers that believed that in order for a Gentile to be saved, they must convert to Judaism, and likely the Pharisaic brand of Judaism. Of course, Paul opposed this emphasizing salvation by grace through faith - the faith of Abraham which preceeded the Mosaic Law or circumcision.

Unfortunately, the Jews also were constantly rebelling against the rule of the Romans until the Romans finally launched an all-out plan to destroy the Jews and their religion. And even though Christians were not rebellious against Rome, actually making very good citizens, they were initially seen as a Jewish sect and thus subject to the oppression of Rome. So many Jewish Christians (likely most) were prejudiced against Gentile Christians; and Gentile Christians were oppressed by Rome for being associated with a Jewish sect. Thus, Gentile Christians came to a place where they felt the need to completely seperate themselves from anything Jewish, including the Law, the festivals, and the worship practices. This separation left a great whole that was filled by Greco-Roman philosophies, ideals, and even pagan worship rituals (ex. Easter). This anti-Jewish attitude has dominated the church until the last century.

Thankfully, today's church is increasingly learning the value of the Law and re-embracing our Jewish roots. The Law was meant to teach the community of faith how to live, influencing and inspiring their personal, domestic, religious, and social/civil lives. Does God intend for us all to become Jewish? I don't believe so. Rather, He does intend for us all to be conformed to the image of Christ that transends all cultural boudaries. Paul's and our challenge was/is to communicate this message of reconciliation. Salvation is by grace through faith! And yet, the Law is immeasurably valuable; and every culture could draw wisdom and inspiration from the Revelation of God through the Mosaic Law and the Jewish people!

[whirlwind]

To summarize my question: Why has Christianity become its own religion? Why have followers of Jesus Christ become deaf to the Law that Jesus Himself was loyal to? Should we not observe the festivals that God appointed us to celebrate? Should we not observe the very Law that Jesus gave His life to protect?

Yes, I believe we should.

As He tells us, among the things we should follow are the food laws, worship on the Sabbath (Saturday) and:

Deuteronomy 16:16 Three times in a year shall all thy males appear before the LORD thy God in the place which He shall choose; in the feast of unleavened bread (Passover), and in the feast of weeks (Pentecost), and in the feast of tabernacles: and they shall not appear before the LORD empty:

When Yeshua came He fulfilled some of the ordinances, the blood ordinances such as circumcision and sacrifice, but He did not change the Law and Statutes. For whatever reason the church has allowed the changes and added some traditions of man.

.........Whirlwind

[Tehilah Ba'Aretz]

I love the Torah. I love the revelation of God in the first books. I love the God of Deuteronomy.

Since He gave us so much information about the things He loves, the things He hates, the way He behaves and the plans He has; Why in the world would I not pay attention to the teachings of Moses?

I am not "Under the Law" nor am I against grace. After all, you can't have one without the other anyway. I think that we as Believers should look closely at the teachings of Torah and do everything we can to please the Beloved Messiah. Not because it is the Law, however. Because we love Him!

[systemstrike_7]

You are probably right. Jesus most likely wasn't a full-blown Pharisee. He was loyal to Yahweh's Law alone. But I still believe that Jesus' basic belief structure was more like the Pharisees than it was the Saducees or Essenes.

Personally, I do believe God wants us to be grafted into the House of Israel. I think God demands that we follow his every Law. If we were to do this very thing, then would we not be essentially Jewish?

Interesting story:

I know this family, quite an amazing family, who are Christians. They are Christians that follow the Word of Yahweh, every dot and tittle. So I suppose they aren't Christian at all (thank goodness). Instead, I guess you would simply call them Jews who believe in the risen Christ (Messianic Jew is a bit of a broad term - way too many messiahs out there). They were giving us a slide show of pictures from their trip to Israel. The pictures were amazing, but the most amazing part of the story came at the end. They told us that this small family was having a get-together and had invited them to eat. When they walked in, the father of the household immediately asked them, "Are you Christians?" and they replied, "No, but we believe Jesus is the Messiah." The man then asked them, "Are you obedient to the Torah(Law)?" They answered yes. The man then turned to the man next to him and said, "The House of Israel is finally returning, our Lord will return soon!"

The man went on to tell them that they have been getting many visitors who believe in the exact same thing. I just thought this was amazing and uplifting.

[systemstrike_7]

I love the Torah. I love the revelation of God in the first books. I love the God of Deuteronomy.

Since He gave us so much information about the things He loves, the things He hates, the way He behaves and the plans He has; Why in the world would I not pay attention to the teachings of Moses?

I am not "Under the Law" nor am I against grace. After all, you can't have one without the other anyway. I think that we as Believers should look closely at the teachings of Torah and do everything we can to please the Beloved Messiah. Not because it is the Law, however. Because we love Him!

I personally don't see how you aren't "Under the Law". God designed His Law for people to be obedient to. We should do it because it is God's Law and this is what pleases Him. Don't forget, faith without works is dead. What good is faith if you have nothing to show for it?

[Hunterpoet]

To summarize my question: Why has Christianity become its own religion? Why have followers of Jesus Christ become deaf to the Law that Jesus Himself was loyal to? Should we not observe the festivals that God appointed us to celebrate? Should we not observe the very Law that Jesus gave His life to protect?

Concerning Jesus being a Pharisee, I don't believe that He was. The primary reason for this is because he so directly opposed the Oral Law (traditions of the Elders). A foundational difference between the Pharisees and the Saducees was the Pharisees held that the Oral Law was as authoritative as the Written Law (Torah). The Sadducees did not believe the Oral Law was authoritative at all; but they also were very secular and did not believe in angels, spirits, or the ressurection of the dead. Jesus was not a Sadducee because He believed in the ressurection of the dead, angels, and demons. He was not a Pharisee because He rejected the Oral Law, the traditions of the Elders, as authoritative, calling it doctrines of men that nullify the word of God.

Concerning the First Great Divide in the church, the division between Jew and Gentile, it originally started with Satan sowing seeds of division through the Judiazing believers that believed that in order for a Gentile to be saved, they must convert to Judaism, and likely the Pharisaic brand of Judaism. Of course, Paul opposed this emphasizing salvation by grace through faith - the faith of Abraham which preceeded the Mosaic Law or circumcision.

Unfortunately, the Jews also were constantly rebelling against the rule of the Romans until the Romans finally launched an all-out plan to destroy the Jews and their religion. And even though Christians were not rebellious against Rome, actually making very good citizens, they were initially seen as a Jewish sect and thus subject to the oppression of Rome. So many Jewish Christians (likely most) were prejudiced against Gentile Christians; and Gentile Christians were oppressed by Rome for being associated with a Jewish sect. Thus, Gentile Christians came to a place where they felt the need to completely seperate themselves from anything Jewish, including the Law, the festivals, and the worship practices. This separation left a great whole that was filled by Greco-Roman philosophies, ideals, and even pagan worship rituals (ex. Easter). This anti-Jewish attitude has dominated the church until the last century.

Thankfully, today's church is increasingly learning the value of the Law and re-embracing our Jewish roots. The Law was meant to teach the community of faith how to live, influencing and inspiring their personal, domestic, religious, and social/civil lives. Does God intend for us all to become Jewish? I don't believe so. Rather, He does intend for us all to be conformed to the image of Christ that transends all cultural boudaries. Paul's and our challenge was/is to communicate this message of reconciliation. Salvation is by grace through faith! And yet, the Law is immeasurably valuable; and every culture could draw wisdom and inspiration from the Revelation of God through the Mosaic Law and the Jewish people!

Thank you Sherman...you explained the seperation much more accurately than I did. My question now is, what do we do or where do we go to begin following and worshiping G-d correctly.

[Guest shiloh357]

Why has Jesus become an American Protestant? If you look closely at the canonical gospel accounts (mainly Mark and Matthew) you will find that Jesus is thoroughly Jewish, maybe even Pharisaic.

Yes, Jesus was a pharisee. Christians have a hard time accepting that He was, but Jesus would not have been able to teach in the synagogues had He not been a Pharisee. Jesus was a Rabbi. All pharisees were Rabbis. A Rabbi is an earned title much like Professor, or Doctor.

The Pharisees were the largest religious group in 1st Century Israel. There were nine orders of Pharisees in those days. Not all of them were hypocrites.

Christian tradition has us believe that the Pharisaic party was in direct opposition to Jesus of Nazareth. I believe this observation is a bit skewed. Jesus' beliefs were mainly Pharisaic, yet He merely CORRECTED the way in which the current Pharisees practiced their belief.

You are correct. Jesus had his supporters and detractors.

So why have Christians stopped observing Jewish Law? Is it something Paul said?

No, Paul was a Torah observant Orthodox Jew. Paul was also a Pharisee. He never stopped being a Pharisee.

To summarize my question: Why has Christianity become its own religion? Why have followers of Jesus Christ become deaf to the Law that Jesus Himself was loyal to? Should we not observe the festivals that God appointed us to celebrate? Should we not observe the very Law that Jesus gave His life to protect?

The early church fathers hated the Jews and did everything they could to make Christianity "Judenrein." Christianity has been transformed into a Gentile religion, when in fact, the coming of Jesus was the fulfillment of the Jewish religion, not its termination.