THE PRIESTHOOD OF JESUS CHRIST

[mobile21]

May I suggest you read up on the religion of the Muslims and see when and how it began? You will find that Allah was the old pagan moon god.

Allah is not the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

I know Allah was the name of one of the ancient arab pagan gods but that doesn't mean those who say that name these days (the muslims) aren't calling for the one, true God.

It's sort of like calling God "Jehova", it's a mistranslation but at the end it doesn't matter because after all we don't know (we can't know) God's true name as the Bible says.

[Guest shadow2b]

-We know he's not talking about the jewish holocaust because in the jewish holocaust no incense was present so it's crystal clear he's talking about the christian holocaust, the Mass, and he talks about it as something good so there goes the blasphemy accusation.

-uhhhhhhhh?? MOBI????I don't know where or how YOU came to think {the Jewish-

-holocaust}represents {A holocaust--Jewish??}Refers to ANYTHING OTHER than

-the slaughter of over 6 million Jews in WW2}This"holocaust"IS NOT a good thing

-to "celebrate in a church service-or a MASS of any kind"for ANY reason

-whatsoever---& PLEASE MOBI--PLEASE explain to me what "INCENSE"has to do

-with anything at all with a church-service when the term--the word--

-"The holocaust"has since WW2 ended always been the term meant & is

-understood as the murder of 6 million Jews-????

-There has NOT been the slaughter of 6 million"christians"in one time

-period that the entire world would define as"the Holocaust"the slaughter of 6

-million "christians"....sO splain "your" terminology here please.....

-It's sort of like calling God "Jehova", it's a mistranslation but at the end it doesn't matter because after all we don't know (we can't know) God's true name as the Bible says.

-uhhhhhh??Mobi---man-oh-man--I don't know what books you have or have not read BUT apparently you really don't know GOD'S WORD very well at all--IN ISAIAH.9.vs.6----There are several "names"attributed to GOD---like:WONDERFUL,

-COUNSELLOR,THE MIGHTY GOD,THE EVERLASTING FATHER,THE PRINCE OF PEACE.

-Those are just a FEW words that the "NAME OF GOD"contain--that are a part of HIM-that DEFINE HIM----sO as far as {we can't know "the true name of GOD"}is concerned YOU are in error--sorry but either GOD'S WORD is TRUE or MAN 'S words are true--which of course WE KNOW that "mans" claim of NOT knowing GOD'S TRUE name is just slightly WRONG-----

-ahhhhh-well mobi--just please try to answer soon O.K.??----

[nicholas]

PLEASE MOBI--PLEASE explain to me what "INCENSE"has to do

-with anything at all with a church-service

Was this a question? It is difficult to know with all the thoughtless gibberish.

BTW God likes incense. Have you not read the bible? There are many references to it. Here is one.

Rev 8, 3-4

And another angel came and stood before the alter, having a golden censer: and there was given to him much INCENSE, that he should offer of ther prayers of all the saints, upon the golden altar which is before the throne of God.

And the smoke of the incense of the prayers of the saints ascended up before God from the hand of the angel.

[Guest yod]

"allah" is arabic for "god"

In the broad sense, saying "allah" is only saying "god"

However, in modern times of Islam "allah" or "god" is speaking of a specific (supposed) deity which is at odds with the God of the judeo-christian Bible. Allah has enough attributes of the Old Testament view of God that it looks like a close rendition...but it's not.

Islam claims the Torah as a Holy book....and even the New Testament....but the Koran is their final authority and Mohammed their final prophet which makes it a completely different god.

Mobile is correct in saying that we don't know the actual name of God. YHVH is how He spells it. That name has no vowels so we are not sure of the exact pronunciation. Some say Yahweh, some say Jahovah....but no one knows for sure.

The other names you have mentioned (Shadow) are names for Him because in the hebraic mindset, your name describes your character. Sort like if someone called me "Texas Hothead". That might be "a" name but it's not "the" name. Kapish?

and the incense? What is the big deal? If someone wishes to burn incense because it accentuates their faith in worship then why would anyone have a problem with it (from a distance)?

I was in an Episcopal church last weekend where they burned just a little too much of it....but it smelled kind of nice.

I had a flashback to the 70s. I was imagining black lights and Led Zepplin posters...so maybe it's not a good idea for "me" to burn incense during worship.....but these folks seemed to enjoy the Lord just fine.

[mobile21]

-We know he's not talking about the jewish holocaust because in the jewish holocaust no incense was present so it's crystal clear he's talking about the christian holocaust, the Mass, and he talks about it as something good so there goes the blasphemy accusation.

-uhhhhhhhh?? MOBI????I don't know where or how YOU came to think {the Jewish-

-holocaust}represents {A holocaust--Jewish??}Refers to ANYTHING OTHER than

-the slaughter of over 6 million Jews in WW2}This"holocaust"IS NOT a good thing

-to "celebrate in a church service-or a MASS of any kind"for ANY reason

-whatsoever---& PLEASE MOBI--PLEASE explain to me what "INCENSE"has to do

-with anything at all with a church-service when the term--the word--

-"The holocaust"has since WW2 ended always been the term meant & is

-understood as the murder of 6 million Jews-????

-There has NOT been the slaughter of 6 million"christians"in one time

-period that the entire world would define as"the Holocaust"the slaughter of 6

-million "christians"....sO splain "your" terminology here please.....

Moby replies:

The holocaust is the jewish ritual sacrifice Gary (Lev 1:1-17). The holocaust "the historical event" is another thing and it's called like that because of the original holocaust.

[stevehut]

The Priest is still required to dispense grace and perform the *biblical* sacrifice.

Mobile, I surely appreciate and respect your devotion. But I must speak up from time to time:

Biblical sacrifice? What sacrifice? I thought that Jesus was our sacrifice once and for all.

I find it interesting that in the listing of Ephesians 4, the following church offices are enumerated:

Apostles

Prophets

Evangelists

Pastors

Teachers

In other places, we see the offices of Bishop (or Overseer), Elder, and Deacon.

None of these people are given the task of making sacrifices. So where exactly is the precedent for a priest?

[stevehut]

The way most here persecute the Catholic church is making me rethink leaving. They must be doing something right.

Mark 7:7 is speaking directly to the Pharisees and I don't think it's fair to equate this to all RC Priests.

Greetings, serotta, I don't think we have met before.

From my observation, I don't think "most" people in here are persecuting the Catholic church. Yes, there are a few who do get hostile and overzealous. But I hope you don't equate disagreement (or skeptical inquiry) as persecution.

From my experience as a former Catholic, most Catholics don't know much about the religion they profess. They just blindly cling to the teachings they received in their youth. (For that matter, this could also apply to Christians of any affiliation.) Come on, you surely must know this is a problem.

Refreshingly, Mobile seems far better informed than most, and is able to put up a hearty defense. I have a great deal of respect for such a person.

As for the excerpt from Mark 7? It seems to me that while Jesus was speaking to a particular group at the time, the principles in there are timeless and applicable to every generation.

[stevehut]

I think that among Catholics you will find a variety of definitions of the Theotokos,

Anyone in here know where the Theotokos doctrine came from? I looked this up recently, and was surprised by it.

[mobile21]

The Priest is still required to dispense grace and perform the *biblical* sacrifice.

Mobile, I surely appreciate and respect your devotion. But I must speak up from time to time:

Biblical sacrifice? What sacrifice? I thought that Jesus was our sacrifice once and for all.

I find it interesting that in the listing of Ephesians 4, the following church offices are enumerated:

Apostles

Prophets

Evangelists

Pastors

Teachers

In other places, we see the offices of Bishop (or Overseer), Elder, and Deacon.

None of these people are given the task of making sacrifices. So where exactly is the precedent for a priest?

Eph 4:11-13 talks about the ministers of the liturgy of the word:

"It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, to prepare God's people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ."

The priest is the minister of the sacrifice. It's God's will to have priests to serve Him and serve His people and this was since the beginning:

"Then Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine. He was priest of God Most High, and he blessed Abram, saying, Blessed be Abram by God Most High, Creator of heaven and earth." (Gen 14:18-19)

Priests necessarily have to come from God's chosen people, Israel in the OT and the faithful in the NT:

"Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine, you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation." (Ex 19:5-6)

"But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light." (1Peter 2:9)

Priests in order to serve God properly have to receive the Sacrament of Confirmation:

"Even the priests, who approach the LORD , must consecrate themselves, or the LORD will break out against them." (Ex 19:22)

And have to be properly ordained through the Sacrament of Holy Orders:

"He poured some of the anointing oil on Aaron's head and anointed him to consecrate him." (Lev 8:12)

"Those were the names of Aaron's sons, the anointed priests, who were ordained to serve as priests" (Num 3:3)

"Do not neglect your gift, which was given you through a prophetic message when the body of elders laid their hands on you." (1Tim 4:14)

The priests have the specific duty of serving God and fulfilling His orders:

"Then Moses said, "This is what the LORD has commanded you to do, so that the glory of the LORD may appear to you." Moses said to Aaron, "Come to the altar and sacrifice your sin offering and your burnt offering and make atonement for yourself and the people; sacrifice the offering that is for the people and make atonement for them, as the LORD has commanded." (Lev 9:6-7)

"And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me." (Lk 22:19)

Jesus Himself as the Lamb was sacrificed by the High Priest:

"Then the chief priests and the elders of the people assembled in the palace of the high priest, whose name was Caiaphas, and they plotted to arrest Jesus in some sly way and kill him." (Matt 26:3-4)

And this is why the sacrifice of the Mass has no lamb to be sacrificed (Lev 1:10), because the perfect offering has been made (Col 1:19-20).

Bottomline is Sandra's entire premise is flawed because when Jesus talks to the Apostles, is clear that with the New Covenant He is giving His priests new prerogatives. The celebration of the Sacrament of Eucharist is specially important since He as the Lamb of God institutes the new sacrifice by becoming the perfect offering for our sins.

Jesus Christ did not abolished priesthood or the sacrifice itself, he perfected it instead:

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." (Matt 5:17)

[His son]

The Scriptures have already been posted that tell us we are all called to be Kings, and priests. There remains not need of us to go to any special priest any longer for confession of our sins. We can confess those which we are led to by The Holy Spirit to other Christians, and always to our High priest Jesus. All the sacrificial , and culinary laws were fulfilled by Jesus Christ, and as others have already posted Jesus gave us the names of giftings that are now needed for the perfecting of The Church, and it should be noted that they are called out for the edification of the whole body, and not as positions of authority. The only authority we have is our triune Godhead. Jesus Is King Of Kings (us) and lord of lords. His also our High Priest after the order of Mechesidec, and is The Priest of Priests (us).

Prov 3:5-8 TRUST IN THE LORD WITH ALL THINE HEART, LEAN NOT TO YOUR OWN UNDERSTANDING, BE NOT WISE IN YOUR OWN EYES

.

II Tim 3:16-17 ALL SCRIPTURE BY INSPIRATION OF GOD, AND PROFITABLE, THAT THE MAN OF GOD BE PERFECT

2 Pet 1:20 NO PROPHECY OF THE SCRIPTURE IS OF ANY PRIVATE INTERPRETATION

2 Sam 14:14 NEITHER DOTH GOD RESPECT ANY PERSON

Job 37:24 HE RESPECTETH NOT ANY THAT ARE WISE OF HEART.

John 17:22-23 BE ONE, EVEN AS WE ARE ONE, THAT THEY MAY BE MADE PERFECT IN ONE

James 1:22-25 BUT BE YE DOERS OF THE WORD, AND NOT HEARERS ONLY

Josh 24:15

15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, CHOOSE YOU THIS DAY whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

(KJV)