Trinity or Oneness?

[damo1]

damo1

to another traveler

wel this side to holds on to this view as wel and i know many that have died for this gospel when i was shakken up i can honestly say i never wanted to step foot into a church i have been into many biblical debates over this and its not just me my partner another traveler has to even put up with this attitude wear she is looked down on and this is what hurts me how can one side do this to others that have also given their lives and fully belive in what it says

yes i also use to be hard headed and i use to put up a wal once this is why i am the way i am another traveler i know ecactly what the bible says and i do not confuse any new christian that comes into our church on topics such as this we point them to the bible and we tel any new person to belive what it says in gods word and alow the holy spirt to be the guide when it comes to gods word

why is it so hard then to be open to what the other side might have to say to this even though i do not hold on to trinity or oneness views i pray to the same god as you do i say openly jesus christ is lord over my life once i was to ashamed to say jesus christ is lord over my life

when i read gods word i take it as it i do not try to complicate things or alow it to confuse me i find this gospel very simple to understand also what i am noticing when the cal is put up how many wil sel them selves out for god when it comes to going to a country wear you know you wil get killed ?

i am going to a country wear many brethren have lost their lives many preciouse sisters in the lord have been raped these people did not ask for this they just belive in everything that is said in gods word with out complicating it

my pastor when he walks into a white mans church him and his wife get looked down on they even hear the sly remarks and when they come home back to wear they know they wil not get this they ask us in our prayer meeting group to pray for them and we embrace our pastors as i love this church that i am in i love the people that i know and not just those in my church but many that god has put into my path

and know i am even ready to take this gospel and i know in the back of my mind i am walking into a country wear i wil have to be fully alert as i wil be on on island wear the heavy fighting has been in the philippines as my partner want me to meet her best friend who is going to sing at our wedding next year when i am their in jan and i have been warn people like my self the muslims target

i do not get offended but i have been by one person everyone else i have learnt something even by what you say this is why i said has any one gotten close

this is one thing that god dealt with very fast when i did decide to step back into a church and recommit my life to him as i did not want to be like this as i feel we al can learn from each other

but i see many wil not openly embrace brothers and sisters like my self who do not hold on to trinity and oneness views

i am always having to ask jesus to help me be like him when ever i run into to some who has nothing better to do then try to be little me by how much they understand when it comes to gods word and i almost have to keep in full control when some one is teling me to denounce what ever i have learnt and how i under stand this for my self

i do not like being told i am going to hel as this has also happend to me i also do not like being told i am the devils child this has happend plenty of times to me and each time this happens to me i just turn the cheek as jesus says take what ever is said as it is me they hate

so this is why i said another traveler has any one hear been able to walk in unity and willing to hear the other side out i too have jotted down some things from this topic and left the rest out that does not line up with gods word

its cool and thanks for being honest and open as i am like this my self this is why i respond to you

god bless from your brother in the lord damien

[AnotherTraveler]

God Bles you too, my brother.

[damo1]

God Bles you too, my brother.

damo1

to another traveler

god bless you to my brother have a good thanks giving and i pray that god refreshes you in church on sunday

from your brother in the lord damien

[GeneV]

The nature of the invisible God. The explanation of the nature of the invisible God. The requirement that all accept the extra-biblical doctrine in it's entirity or they are in heresy. Why not agree with the scriptures?

1 Tim 3:16 (KJV)

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Could both sides of this agree that when it came to understanding mysteries, the Apostle Paul just might have a little deeper revelation than most of us? Yet, he calls this mystery GREAT.

Is it not a bit arrogant to argue over the nature of the Godhead?

Oneness is not an easy position to defend as though it is easy to explain, however, neither is the trinity doctrine an easy position to defend.

Consider the issue of who is the Father of Jesus? Should be an easy answer, well, of course, the Father is the Father, duh! Right? Yet, what does the scripture say?

Matt 1:18-20 (KJV)

Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. 19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily. 20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

Now anyone trying to seperate the Father and the Holy Ghost have a real hard time explaining these verses. The bible says clearly twice here that she was found to be with child of the Holy Ghost. How do you explain that? Easy! 1 Tim 3:16 (KJV) It's a GREAT MYSTERY!

How can the Father speak from the heavens, while the Son is standing right there, as the sign of the Holy Ghost is manifest all at once? 1 Tim 3:16 (KJV)

I have read and studied for over 30 years on this subject, and neither side has convinced me that they know any more than Paul did, or any more than the bible says, and I say let God speak to us through His Word. I suspect that God is much more glorified by us loving one another than He is by us deciding that we somehow can explain this GREAT MYSTERY that the bible does not bother to explain.

Isaiah 44:6 (GW)

The Lord is Israel's king and defender.

He is the Lord of Armies.

This is what the Lord says:

I am the first and the last,

and there is no God except me.

Deut 6:4 (KJV)

Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

Matt 28:19-20 (KJV)

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

John 1:18 (KJV)

No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

1 John 4:12 (KJV)

No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

1 Tim 3:16 (KJV)

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Personally, I would be disappointed if any of us could really easily explain so great a mystery in a few paragraphs, oneness or trinity included.

A coupla verses in the NIV + commentary in italics may perhaps be added to the above...

" For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. No one has ever seen God, [the Father] but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, [Jesus/Yashua] has made him known. " (John 1:17-18, NIV)

" No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father. " ( John 6:46, NIV)

[OneLight]

Actually it says they are 1,it never says they are individuals,we witness the Father in creation,we witness the word through the bible,Jesus ect...,we witness the Spirit through our spirits(For the Spirit bears witness with our spirit that we are the children of God ,rom 8:16)but they are not individuals nor does the bible say they are it expressly says they ARE ONE.

I have followed your posts throughout this thread and wonder why you would ignore so many brothers and sisters pointing to you clearly how your doctrine is wrong and still hold onto a lie? They are one in spirit. Being the Godhead, they have to be one or they would not be a Godhead. They would be conflicting and not true. You can choose to ignore one more truth. It is yor choice, for God did give you a free will.

OneLight

[ArtistforChrist]

Onwings,

You say that Jesus had a sinful nature, that is not true, He was fully God so therefore could not sin, this is what the Temptation by Satan was for, to show that he could not sin, All of Christ temptations came from without, not from within, because if Jesus had the ability to sin, he would not be a perfect sacrifice, He said even thinking of sinning is a sin.

In another thread you said that Jesus was praying to the Father, but yet you say he is the Father, you are contradicting yourself, either he is the Father, or he is separate from the Father, if is the Father, he would be praying to himself, which would make him crazy. People pray, natures do not, Jesus had two Natures, a human Nature, and a Divine Nature, Fully Man, Fully God.

Jesus said he was separate from the Father, Read John 8, Jesus said he testifies of himself, and the Father testifies about the Son, giving TWO witnesses, referring to the OT rule about a least two witnesses needed to count.

God Bless,

John

[damo1]

damo1

to owings as eagles

i am just going over this thread know and have come upon your last sevral posts i dont know weather you are blind or weather you are just a very foolish man i have told you i do not hold on to trinity or oneness views and if you have botherd to read what me and another traveler have been talking about you would see that i even said this their are many brothers and many sisters like my self who do not hold onto these views

i do not need to do this essay owings as eagles you said to me you are hear to teach gods people the truth i already know the truth and i stick to gods living word more than mans doctrine that is why i said your oneness doctrine is very flawless i have come across many people like your self owings as eagles who have bluntly and openly told me that i am going to hell i have had even sevral tell me to my face that i am the devils child for thinking like the way i do i have also said if i had my way i would stil be living the life i was comfterbal of living i did not ever want to step into a church i got tired of the biblical arguments and running into people like your self who think they have all the answers

and its not just me when my pastor walks into a white mans church him and his wife get the very same sly remarks i get when i walk in to a church while on holiday and it shows me that some have not got the fruit of the spirit

one if people like your self say god came in the form of man i realy wonder how open are you when it comes to the bible that you read

1 who was in marys womb was it god or was it jesus ?

2 when jesus came to john the baptist in matthew 3 verses 11 to 16 who was it that was talking to john the baptist was it gods son jesus or was it god him self ?

3 when satan tempted jesus who was led by the spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil for forty days and for forty nights was it god or was it jesus matthew 4 is talking about

4 while mary was asleep she did not know that she was to be viseted by an angel or even be the mother of jesus as spoken about in the gospels and each gospel has its own version to the events that took place did the angel say to mary that you are going to be gods mother or did the angel say to mary that you are going to be jesus mother ?

who was the angel talking about in all of the gospel matthew mark luke and john which gospel has it right ?

5 when jesus was arrested as we read this in all the gospels and judas betrayed him who did judas betray was it god him self or was it gods son

matthew 26 verse 47 betrayal and arrest in gethsemane

and while he was stil speaking behold judas one of the twelve with a great multitude with swords and clubs

came from the chief priest and elders of the people

48 now his betrayer had given them a sign saying whom ever i kiss he is the one seize him

49 immediatly judas went up to jesus and said greeting rabbi and kissed him

50 but jesus said to him friend why have you come then they came and laid hands on jesus and took him

who was being arrested in these verses was it jesus gods own son being arrested or was it our father who we all know as god ?

6 the birth of jesus as talked about in all the gospels from matthew mark luke and john we all know this very well its even played on tv and this has been also played in the jails around australia threw christmas as prisoners are allowed to have a tv in their cell i like lukes version of the events that took place when the angel had viseted mary to tel her she was about to be jesus mother the angel even told mary what to name the child and he said you shal name the child jesus

who is the angel talking about in these verses

luke 1 the christs birth anounced to mary or should this be gods birth anounced to mary ?

28 and having come in the angel said to her rejoice highly favord one the lord is with you blessed are you among women

29 but when she saw him she was troubled at his saying and considered what manner of greeting this was

30 then the angel said to her do not be affraid mary you have found favor with god

31 and behold you wil conceive in your womb and bring forth a son and shall call him jesus

32 he wil be great and wil be called the son of the highest and the lord god wil give him the throne of

his father david

33 and he wil reign over the house of jacob for ever and of his kingdom their wil be no end

while the angel was talking to mary please point out to me in all the gospels from matthew mark luke and even john wear it says that the angel was talking to mary about god and that she was to bring god into this world who from the start of genesis we read how god him self created this earth while it was dark and it says his spirit hoverd over this earth who has it right hear do the gospels have this right or are you the only one that has this right

do me and my other brothers and sisters in the lord who stay clear from trinity and from oneness denounce how we understand this and alow you to teach us the truth as you said to me in the post you left that if i have any questions about this you will help answer my questions

wear does it say people like your self owings as eagles have the right to judge your other brothers and your other sisters in the lord like this

your oneness doctrine is flawless it mocks every thing i stand for and every thing christ did for us from the day he was born into this world to the day he was led to the cross his life was short and then you have the nerve to say what you said in the post you left me that you are led by god to teach the truth

tell me something i am seeing this in evry single post that you place threw the topics that are set up on worthy why is it so hard for you its as if you are having a hard time seeing jesus the way i see jesus you say in every single post you your self apply to god is jesus was heaven left unatteded whil the creator of this world was in mary womb ?

and when god decided to talk to moses he did this in the form of a burning bush we al know this story very well are all the bibles contradicting them selves ?

many have died for this gospel owings as eagles many in india and in china are loosing their lives over this gospel in my partners country many brothers and sisters in the lord have been killed single women have been raped and hear is some one like your self willing to lead me to the truth of gods word you show no respect to your other brothers and other sisters who also belive and also pray to the same god yet you have the nerve and the guts to tell us we are all wrong because you feel that we have alowed mans doctrine to take over instead of seeking the truth

i have told you i do not even worship the man that preaches down the front i put my trust in the holy spirit when it comes to me hearing gods living word preached or me reading this gospel the apostles layed down their very own life for this gospel even the disciples john the baptist had his head cut off gods own son had to carry his own cross and was naild on a cross with two criminals next to him and al the so called teachers ust like your self mocked him and said if you are gods son save your self what did jesus do he said father forgive them for they know not what they do meaning they do not know what they are saying he took every insulting and every hurtful word and you dare tell me you are hear to teach the truth

and hear is a flawles doctrine by a flawles person who is not even willing to open his eyes to the truth of gods word please go teach your truth to some one else owings as eagles as i wil not accept your truth as i feel you are on your own hear and i leave you in gods hands for god to deal with you as its guys like your self who wil turn many from following christ and you should know the warnings very well when it comes to false prophets and false teachers you say you are a teacher that has be sent to preach nothing but the truth wel teacher take heed any one falls or any one walks away that god him self draws into the kingdom when he decides to judge the world you wil have to give acount as he wil hold you responsible

every time you post your oneness doctrine i wil add to it and i wil say its flawless

i am with in my own rights to do this until i see that you are wiling to walk in one with your other brothers and sisters in the lord who do not hold on to oneness or trinity views

god bless from your brother in the lord damien

[AnotherTraveler]

i am just going over this thread know and have come upon your last sevral posts i dont know weather you are blind or weather you are just a very foolish man

There might be a third possibility. He might disagree with you, and though that would cetainly make him disagreeable , I think placing blindness and foolishness on him is a little harsh.

A spoon full of sugar makes the teeth rot away, the teeth rot away....please keep your teeth for chewing food, NOT biting and devouring one another, and add a tiny amount of sweetness to your words please.

[ArtistforChrist]

damo1 ,

Your view of God is flawed also. Jesus claimed, many times, that he was God, His followers said he was God, The Father calls him God.

John 1, Col. 1, Phillipians 2, Hebrews 8, Rev. 1, etc all say Jesus was God.

In Jewish Culture, a Son is considered to be of the same essance or nature as his Father, so by saying he was the Son of God, Jesus was claiming Deity, he was even claiming deity we he said he was the Son of Man, it is a referance to a prophecy in Danial about one with the Apperance of a Son of Man coming before the Anciant of Days and was allowed to be worshiped, which only God can recieve worship.

God Bless,

Artist <><

[AnotherTraveler]

damo1 ,

Your view of God is flawed also. Jesus claimed, many times, that he was God, His followers said he was God, The Father calls him God.

John 1, Col. 1, Phillipians 2, Hebrews 8, Rev. 1, etc all say Jesus was God.

In Jewish Culture, a Son is considered to be of the same essance or nature as his Father, so by saying he was the Son of God, Jesus was claiming Deity, he was even claiming deity we he said he was the Son of Man, it is a referance to a prophecy in Danial about one with the Apperance of a Son of Man coming before the Anciant of Days and was allowed to be worshiped, which only God can recieve worship.

God Bless,

Artist <><

Good Points