Interesting Verses

[tsth]

Haggai 2

11 "This is what the Lord Almighty says: 'Ask the priests what the law says: 12 If a person carries consecrated meat in the fold of his garment, and that fold touches some bread or stew, some wine, oil or other food, does it become consecrated?'" The priests answered, "No." 13 Then Haggai said, "If a person defiled by contact with a dead body touches one of these things, does it become defiled?" "Yes," the priests replied, "it becomes defiled." 14 Then Haggai said, "'So it is with this people and this nation in my sight,' declares the Lord.

(What do you think the point was?)

In His Love,

Suzanne

[whirlwind]

Haggai 2

11 "This is what the Lord Almighty says: 'Ask the priests what the law says: 12 If a person carries consecrated meat in the fold of his garment, and that fold touches some bread or stew, some wine, oil or other food, does it become consecrated?'" The priests answered, "No." 13 Then Haggai said, "If a person defiled by contact with a dead body touches one of these things, does it become defiled?" "Yes," the priests replied, "it becomes defiled." 14 Then Haggai said, "'So it is with this people and this nation in my sight,' declares the Lord.

(What do you think the point was?)

In His Love,

Suzanne

My understanding of those verses is that God is speaking of building the temple but it also applies to us in the end times:

Haggai 2:7 And I will shake all nations, and the desire of all nations shall come: and I will fill this house with glory, saith the Lord of hosts.

So...we know He is speaking of the end of days, when the great shaking will occur. Only then will there be true peace. In that day, "If one that is unclean by a dead body touch any of these, shall it be unclean?" meaning...."So is this nation before Me...and so is every work of their hands."

To me He is saying that if a house is full of spiritually dead people...do not touch them! Is our nation full of the spiritually dead, are our churches full of the spiritually dead?

God continues by telling us that:

2:17 I smote you with blasting and with mildew and with hail in all the labours of your hands; yet ye turned not to Me, saith the Lord

Some ask for blessings from Him but are spiritually dead. He wants us to repent and love Him.

.........Whirlwind

[tsth]

But don't you find the contrasts interesting? You would think that the holy things would have more affect, BUT, it clearly is showing that the unclean/unholy will spoil the WHOLE thing. But, in today's teachings, this portion is dismissed, and the other is being taught. That the bringing and touching of the unclean with the holy, will purify the unclean. That is opposite of what the passage is saying. The passage is teaching to beware of defilement.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[whirlwind]

But don't you find the contrasts interesting? You would think that the holy things would have more affect, BUT, it clearly is showing that the unclean/unholy will spoil the WHOLE thing. But, in today's teachings, this portion is dismissed, and the other is being taught. That the bringing and touching of the unclean with the holy, will purify the unclean. That is opposite of what the passage is saying. The passage is teaching to beware of defilement.

In His Love,

Suzanne

Yes it is and I believe should be taught as such. You can love your enemies, or love those that don't follow God by teaching them truth but that doesn't mean become part of that group.

Case in point are the colleges of today. They are so filled with liberal teaching that a young person is easily led away from God's truth and into unbelief. The problem is they must attend classes.

Someone I study with said that Satan has 4 "hidden dynasties" that he works with to corrupt us. They are politics, finance, religion and education. They are really coming to the forefront now and exerting their power, especially on our young people.

So...you are right when you say that the unclean can defile the clean instead of the other way around. I guess the trick is to recognize it for what it is, change what we can and stay away from the rest....all the while asking for His protection! I believe that is what He meant when He said:

Mark 9:47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kngdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:

We must pluck out the offending member (of our group, our church, etc.) and not allow it to contaminate the others. You can still love them and instruct them and once they have repented I believe they should be part of the whole again.

It would be as if a family member was involved in drugs. To me it would be wrong to allow that person to remain in your home and perhaps influence younger members. You wouldn't stop loving them but you could not allow their behavior to hurt others.

Anyway, that is how I feel about it........Thank you for the interesting question. (I also like your next one on Ez.34. I don't want to monopolize your post and hope you won't mind my responding to it)

.........Whirlwind

[tah]

But don't you find the contrasts interesting? You would think that the holy things would have more affect, BUT, it clearly is showing that the unclean/unholy will spoil the WHOLE thing. But, in today's teachings, this portion is dismissed, and the other is being taught. That the bringing and touching of the unclean with the holy, will purify the unclean. That is opposite of what the passage is saying. The passage is teaching to beware of defilement.

In His Love,

Suzanne

I have been reading the Scripture here and I am not understanding quite what you are saying..

Can you give me an example ...

what touching what specifically...in todays life...

And yes it does seem odd..

[tsth]

Thank you whirlwind.

We are hearing the same within the Word.

Here's another:

1 Cor. 15:33 Do not be misled: "Bad company corrupts good character."

34 Come back to your senses as you ought, and stop sinning; for there are some who are ignorant of God--I say this to your shame.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Emily~Anne]

Thank you whirlwind.

We are hearing the same within the Word.

Here's another:

1 Cor. 15:33 Do not be misled: "Bad company corrupts good character."

34 Come back to your senses as you ought, and stop sinning; for there are some who are ignorant of God--I say this to your shame.

In His Love,

Suzanne

Oh yes, I am very familiar with that verse, it is one of our many reasons for homeschooling. Here's another:

Proverbs 13:20

20 He who walks with the wise grows wise,

but a companion of fools suffers harm.

And then:

Psalm 1:1-2

1 Blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked, or stand in the way of sinners. 2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD, and on his law he mediatates day and night.

[tah]

Ok,this is what is in my head ...

Jesus told peter that he was clean now except he needed his feet washed..

If Jesus makes us clean and all we need is our feet washed then this Scripture you quoted has become one of "Old Testament" value..yes?

We can get "dirty feet" and not become completely defiled...

Or have I missed your point completely??

[Knowlij]

You both made very strong points about this scripture. I believe that part of ministering to someone is letting people see Christ in you. Once, they see that someone is avoiding them because they have sinned makes them be turned off to christianity. They need someone who is strongly founded in the word and has a strong desire to spread God's kingdom. I mean yes the bible does talk about being unequally yoaked. But, these are the people who need the bible and need believers to care about them. I help out for a bible study in an old folks home for disabled people who churches have abandoned in the past years because they became a burden to pick up for church or some other lame excuse. Ghandi said I would be a christian if it weren't for Christians. Because our commission is to preach the gospel to EVERY CREATURE. So, I would hope that if I were ever to fall that someone would be willing to stoop down to pick me up. Tell me if i'm off base here.

[tsth]

Dear tah,

Well, it depends on how you view the OT, I guess. I don't think that there was favoritism toward the Christian, and thus more relevance to the NT. The NT is just a fulfilling of the OT, and the OT is the revealing of the New. They both are of value to ALL believers in Christ Jesus. The gist of the teaching is that we do not make something holy by putting it in contact with the sanctified, but the opposite will/can take place by bringing in the defiled with the cleansed.

It is like the leaven that is able to affect the whole batch:

1 Cor. 5:1 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that does not occur even among pagans: A man has his father's wife. 2 And you are proud! Shouldn't you rather have been filled with grief and have put out of your fellowship the man who did this? 3 Even though I am not physically present, I am with you in spirit. And I have already passed judgment on the one who did this, just as if I were present. 4 When you are assembled in the name of our Lord Jesus and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5 hand this man over to Satan, so that the sinful nature may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord. 6 Your boasting is not good. Don't you know that a little yeast works through the whole batch of dough?

7 Get rid of the old yeast that you may be a new batch without yeast--as you really are. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. 8 Therefore let us keep the Festival, not with the old yeast, the yeast of malice and wickedness, but with bread without yeast, the bread of sincerity and truth.

9 I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people-- 10 not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11 But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat. 12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you."

We do NOT sanctify, only God does this, and then the edifying continues in the teachings of the Word. The church was supposed to continue in the Word within the house of God. The great commission was to "go out" and bring disciples in. Then we were to continue in the teachings, and mature the disciples. But now, the church has become a warehouse for the lost, who do not eat solid food, and keep hearing the elementary teachings of Christ over and over again. Thus the body has become defiled, rather than sanctified.

Hebrews 5:12 In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God's word all over again. You need milk, not solid food! 13 Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. 14 But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.

There is NO discerning anymore within the body.

In His Love,

Suzanne