Do Babies Automatically Go to Heaven?

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings MCM,

O.K maybe I wasn't clear... I'm simply saying that for a NON-BELIEVING WOMAN would it not be a comfort to know that her aborted baby is now in heaven? Hence easing her conscience over doing such an act?

I'm thinking it would... I"m not saying it's a good idea, I was just saying it may lighten the load for someone who is NOT A BELIEVER. (What I mean about that is they don't care about their sin, only getting it over with, moving on.

The answer is an absolute and unequivical NO! I pray that every woman who has an abortion burns with a convicting conscience UNTIL they repent and turn to Christ to have their sins washed away. I do not want them to get over having MURDERED an innocent.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[Guest mcm42]

The answer is an absolute and unequivical NO! I pray that every woman who has an abortion burns with a convicting conscience

You really don't think so, wouldn't ease the conscience even one bit?

I don't know, I think your giving sinful man too much credit. I would think the woman would jump all over the idea? But I'm not a woman so who am I to say... it was just a thought

[stevehut]

An exaggerated version of Original Sin??? What????

Yes, Calvin borowed much of his doctrine from Augustine of Hippo, 4th century. Augustine is the one who first defined the concept of Original Sin in his essay, On the Merits and Remission of Sins, and on the Baptism of Infants

Total Depravity begins at that point, and goes further. Look it up.

[stevehut]

For anyone who's still struggling with the concept of Original Sin, please consider this excerpt from Ezekiel 18:

1 The word of the LORD came to me: 2 "What do you people mean by quoting this proverb about the land of Israel:

" 'The fathers eat sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge'?

3 "As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD , you will no longer quote this proverb in Israel. 4 For every living soul belongs to me, the father as well as the son-both alike belong to me. The soul who sins is the one who will die.

v. 18: He will not die for his father's sin; he will surely live. 18 But his father will die for his own sin, because he practiced extortion, robbed his brother and did what was wrong among his people.

19 "Yet you ask, 'Why does the son not share the guilt of his father?' Since the son has done what is just and right and has been careful to keep all my decrees, he will surely live. 20 The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him.

v. 30 "Therefore, O house of Israel, I will judge you, each one according to his ways, declares the Sovereign LORD . Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall. 31 Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, O house of Israel? 32 For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD . Repent and live!

God does not hold us responsible for the sins of Adam.

[Guest mcm42]

God does not hold us responsible for the sins of Adam.

Romans 5:18,19

18 So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.

19 For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous

How do you explain this then?

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings MCM,

Romans 5:18,19

18 So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.

19 For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous

How do you explain this then?

As you so often do, you take verses "out of context". Is it not obvious to you that "death" came to Adam and his descendents once they were kicked out of the Garden of Eden and no longer had access to the "Fruit of the Tree of Life"? We are not responsible for the "sins of the Father":

Deuteronomy 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

So what do we read elsewhere in Romans:

Romans 3:10-19 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. 13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: 14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: 15 Their feet are swift to shed blood: 16 Destruction and misery are in their ways: 17 And the way of peace have they not known:

Romans 3:18 There is no fear of God before their eyes. 19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

This is the "condition" of man, UNTIL he comes to the saving knowledge of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and THEN ONLY if he/she accepts Him as Lord and Savior.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[Guest mcm42]

As you so often do, you take verses "out of context

So why don't you enlighten us on the context of Romans 5?

Since that's where my quote is from!

[Guest mcm42]

12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned--

13 for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a [1] type of Him who was to come.

15 But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many.

16 The gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned; for on the one hand the judgment arose from one transgression resulting in condemnation, but on the other hand the free gift arose from many transgressions resulting in justification.

17 For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.

18 So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.

19 For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous.

It doesn't get more clear than that... Through one transgression condemnation to all, that is indeed the state of man. (In context I might add)

[stevehut]

Romans 5:18,19

18 So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.

How do you explain this then?

I believe that says that Adam and Eve were the first sinners. And that everyone born since then (except Jesus, of course) also sins.

What do you make of Ezekiel 18? Or Deut. 24?

(Bravo, Ernie.)

[Guest mcm42]

I believe that says that Adam and Eve were the first sinners

If it brought condemnation to all men... when adam sinned, then all were condemned when adam sinned, therefore, since I wasn't around when adam sinned, i was still condmened... Make sense...

I'll get back to you on the ezek and duet passages, I have an idea but I need to re-read so I don't make an oops, it's been known to happen