Salvation

March 20, 2004

God will not save you in spite of yourself, you will be saved only if you take up your cross and follow Jesus as an act of your freewill to submit yourself to God's will that you go into the world that Jesus has sent you into the same as The Father sent Him, and be sanctified with The Truth the same as He was. You are under a false sense of security that could cost you your life with Jesus.

You walk with alot of swagger but not a whole lot of proof!

How will you save yourself? How will you raise yourself up in the last day? How do you resurrect your own dead soul to live again in Christ. You speak so boldly tell me how you have, of your own will made your dead and useless soul raise itself into new life? Have you? Did God choose you or did you choose God?

If your faith is in your acceptance, your belief, or your baptism, I say to you good luck! Because not even luck will make your soul rise if The Holy Spirit doesn't first come and make it alive!

Your false sense of security is in yourself, mine is in my Lord an savior. Don't you be so wise to think that you had anything to do with your salvation.

I ask you this, how will God save us unless it is in spite of ourselves. You act as though God is waiting outside your door knocking! HA! He will knock to the end of eternity if it were left to yourself!

Rather he knocks down the door of our hearts, invades it with Grace, Love and Mercy, shows Himself to us, Opens or blind eyes and raises our dead sinful souls into knew life in him.

Answer this since you are so wise!

March 20, 2004

Maybe I've been too harsh

I dont' mean to be... but I have yet to say someone elses opinion is a brag of satan... and even more I have yet to question another Salvation over any issue thus far!

You difference in doctrine, will not change my belief that you are still in Christ. I am angered by the fact that someone would even suggest a brother is lost based doctrinal differences.

I don't wish to divide, my apologies if I have been too harsh. I only seek to bring out God's Word as it is written, I in no way intend to offend, or hurt.

God bless, for only He has the power to do so... My prayer is that my post does not hurt, but humbles!

serotta · March 20, 2004

Very nice apology mcm42, I hope his son accepts it as graciously as it is given. And I agree that he was harsh also.

I ask you this, how will God save us unless it is in spite of ourselves. You act as though God is waiting outside your door knocking! HA! He will knock to the end of eternity if it were left to yourself!

Rather he knocks down the door of our hearts, invades it with Grace, Love and Mercy, shows Himself to us, Opens or blind eyes and raises our dead sinful souls into knew life in him.

This had me a little perplexed though. Rev 3:20 says explicitly "Behold I stand at the door and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him and sup with him, and he with me."

The invitation is open to all, and His grace is freely given to all. But we do have to accept it.

March 20, 2004

Behold I stand at the door and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door

Thank you for you post! It's a great verse! I would say the only people who hear the voice, are those who have ears to hear!

From mans perspective we "recieve, or accept Christ" however, we know that we are dead in trespasses and sin... none of us seeks after God, not one (Ie. Romans 3).

WE Need the Spirit to make us alive so we can hear the Word and Believe. Otherwise it would be foolishness to us!

John 3:16 is the same thing..."for whosoever believes in Him"... the argument is that you can not believe in him without Him first choosing you.

In evangelism, I would never get into this, My gospel presentation may even have this scripture in it. But, it is very important to me that we never think we can open that door, or even hear his voice, lest he first opens our ears, and lead us to him!

So in a sense we believe and are saved,(Man's perspective) but From God's Sovereign point of view, he knows, and has chosen us, and sent His Spirit unto us to make us able to do all those things!

I suppose I would rather have a sovereign God, who chooses us, and causes us to come to Him, rather than thinking that GOD is dependant upon any of my works.

So in a sense, we must believe for salvation, but I don't believe on can believe without first having the spirit to guide the to that decision...

Hope this clarifies my point

March 20, 2004

none of this has anything to do with the original post

Sorry pryzma...

To bring it full circle, I believe that if we are chosen we will come to Christ... and therefore salvation can not be lost

Ovedya · March 20, 2004

God will not save you in spite of yourself, you will be saved only if you take up your cross and follow Jesus as an act of your freewill to submit yourself to God's will that you go into the world that Jesus has sent you into the same as The Father sent Him, and be sanctified with The Truth the same as He was. You are under a false sense of security that could cost you your life with Jesus.

So, then, my "false sense of security" is in the saving grace of the Father through the justifying blood of Jesus Christ, and that, according to you, will cost me eternal life? I think not, my friend. The exercize of my free-will will not save me.

It's condemning words like these that are the cancer in the Body of Christ. They cause the believers to question their eternal stand before God, and bring the believers into a "fear-factor" Christianity, where the believers work out their salvation by the exercise of their outward behavior out of fear that God will condemn them in the end if they do not.

Friend, you are indeed fooled if you believe that the exercizing of your corrupted free-will will bring you eternal salvation.

March 20, 2004

you are indeed fooled if you believe that the exercizing of your corrupted free-will will bring you eternal salvation.

Amen and Amen!!

serotta · March 20, 2004

mcm42 wrote:

Hope this clarifies my point

Yes, I think it does, but i would respectfully disagree.

Christ died once FOR ALL...

if ANY MAN hear my voice...

The bible is filled with verses that make it clear that God's grace is freely available to all. To then turn around and say "yes but He chooses a select few to receive it" is wrong IMO. Why would we need to evangelize at all? If God selects a certain person to be saved, he'll be saved and we play no part in that. I guess I just don't get that kind of logic.

Yes, God saves us in spite of ourselves, because we are ALL sinners in need of redemption. Every day we must CHOOSE to abandon our own agendas and enter into authentic worsip of the King of glory.

March 20, 2004

Why would we need to evangelize at all? If God selects a certain person to be saved, he'll be saved and we play no part in that. I guess I just don't get that kind of logic.

Many of the verses you are referring to (this is opinion) may not mean All as in every, but all as in All people. That is the approach that many take who hold to this belief. For example salvation is now not only for the Jews but for All men. Context will show that it doesn't mean every man... but all in the sense of People groups. Christ Died once for all (Gentiles and Jews alike) and If any man hear my voice (any man, not just Jews but any Man).

Also... as far as evangelism... we do it because 1. we are commanded to evangelize, and 2. If God didn't choose some our evangelism would fall on deaf ears.

I must always turn to the Total depravity of man, and the sovereignty of God. I feel that all other sides on this issue bring into suspect these two doctrines, which are far too important too let slide!

Also, on the point of evangelism, we were created in Christ Jesus for good works! The assumption is that because God commanded we will do it, and because God forordained the works for us to walk in them, we will inevitable walk in them!

I'm glad to see we can Agree to disagree...

My God bless your study

Hope this clarifies even more where I'm coming from

Ovedya · March 20, 2004

Perhaps another (Or, YET another) thread on TULIP vs. DAISY is more appropriate, rather than clutter this one with another debate. The original poster is more concerned with the assurance of salvation.