The Great Whore of the Revelation (chp 18)

[MrsSealedEternal]

The ten kings hate the whore and they also make war with the Lamb.

So, I think that the ten kings are muslim arab kingdoms (nations), the false prophet is the coming false muslim prophet, they hate the whore which seams to include the Catholic church but might be of a broader application, and the fall of corrupt religious, political, military, and economic authority will cause the diminishing of the control of the world wide web to fall into the hands of the beast. All Christian-like manifestations will be attacked and the "whore" aspect will be destroyed by the beast. The Lamb will overcome them though.

About the 10 kings...Which 10 muslim arab kindoms?

I currently suspect it is more likely going to be under a one world global governmental agency, possibly the UN or simular puppet organization.

[AnotherTraveler]

The ten kings hate the whore and they also make war with the Lamb.

So, I think that the ten kings are muslim arab kingdoms (nations), the false prophet is the coming false muslim prophet, they hate the whore which seams to include the Catholic church but might be of a broader application, and the fall of corrupt religious, political, military, and economic authority will cause the diminishing of the control of the world wide web to fall into the hands of the beast. All Christian-like manifestations will be attacked and the "whore" aspect will be destroyed by the beast. The Lamb will overcome them though.

About the 10 kings...Which 10 muslim arab kindoms?

I currently suspect it is more likely going to be under a one world global governmental agency, possibly the UN or simular puppet organization.

I am just guessing on much of my post. However, I wouldn't be surprised that the UN could be used, but the USA would have to have been minimized or eliminated, as we have veto authority right now.

[Guest shiloh357]

People like John Hagee and other evangical "leaders" are making millions off Israel, as is the military industrial complex and we send billions of dollars every year to Israel..someone is making a profit there. There are many who profit off Israel, if you would take the time to do the research you would see that.

And of course if Jerusalem was taken as a spoil people would become rich. Promising the people spoils was how medeivel Kings persuaded them to fight in the first place. Look at history...anytime a place has gone down someone has profited...hence the saying...to the victor go the spoils.

I guess when all else fails we could actually read the Bible.

The Mystery Babylon from the text of Revelation 17:18 is a "city" that reigns over the kings of the earth. This "city" has a global dominion, and is obviously center of global commerce. John is not talking about a literal "city." He is talking about the rule of the anti-Christ.

Jerusalem has not been, nor is it prophesied to be a city that will rule the world. That is one reason it does not fit the description of "Babylon."

To an intelligent reader of the Scriptures, "Babylon" is a metaphor for the evil world system of the anti-Christ and many who side with the anti-Christ are depicted as having partaken in her sins. In Revelation 18:3, we see that world leaders of and those called "merchants of the earth" who profited temporarily by allying themselves with the anti-Christ, will in Romans 18:11, mourn the destruction of Babylon (The rule of the anti-Christ) because not only is their lucrative financial/economic relatioship ended but because God's judgment of the Babylon includes the judgment of all kings and merhcants of the earth that aligned themselves with the anti-Christ's global system and participated in the spiritual fornications.

That is why God calls out in the same chapter, "come out of her my people, that you do not receive her plagues (the fruit of God's judgment)."

To try and compare Reveleation 18 which talks about the judgment of Babylon with Zechariah 14 and the "spoils" that are taken in battle is just absurd. According to Zechariah 14 Jesus is returning to rescue Jerusalem from being destroyed by the enemy nations who seek to destroy her. Zechariah 14 corresponds to the return of Jesus in Revelation 19. Jesus is returning to Jerusalem according to the Bible. If Jerusalem is Babylon and Babylon is destoyed there would be no Jerusalem for Jesus to return to. Furthermore, if Jerusalem is Babylon, why would Jesus, according to Zechariah 14, fight FOR Jerusalem?

In Revelation 18, Mystery Babylon is destoryed by God. In Zechariah 14, Jesus is returning to rescue Jerusalem from her earthly enemies who seek her destruction. His coming is literal, as He will put His foot on the Mt. of Olives.

So the big question is why would the nations mourn over the destruction of Jerusalem when it is the nations who, according to Scripture, seek to destroy Israel in the first place? It is the nations, allied with the anti-Christ who finally seek to completely destroy the City of God once and for all, and they are judged by God for that among other things. Far from mourning over Israel's destruction, the world has proven that it hates Israel, and even now, there are many who see the rebirth of Israel as a mistake.

[Guest shiloh357]

Messianic Jewish author Dr. David Stern offers the following commentary on the possible identities of "Babylon" in the Book of Revelation:

She has fallen! She has fallen! Babylon the Great! This cry, combining Isaiah 21:9 with Daniel 4:21, is repeated at 18:2, when the destruction of Babylon is being detailed (chapters 17

[Guest shiloh357]

People like John Hagee and other evangical "leaders" are making millions off Israel, as is the military industrial complex and we send billions of dollars every year to Israel..someone is making a profit there. There are many who profit off Israel, if you would take the time to do the research you would see that.

And of course if Jerusalem was taken as a spoil people would become rich. Promising the people spoils was how medeivel Kings persuaded them to fight in the first place. Look at history...anytime a place has gone down someone has profited...hence the saying...to the victor go the spoils.

I guess when all else fails we could actually read the Bible.

Before you begin trying to correct other's, perhaps you should take a look at how you style your own responses.

Even my 10 year old understands how a decent person (especially one who calls himself a Christian) should address others.

So in the future, before you insult what others believe, take a deep look at your own self.

I have dozens of responses from you in dozens of threads here on worthy where you talk down to me as well as others (as is well known by many). Why should anyone take your theology seriously when you clearly show that you need a change of heart yourself. "You shall know them by their fruits."

Your attempt to connect the merchants of the earth to John Hagee or to US Foregin aid is just laughable. I mean, its like you don't even try to provide a biblically based response. So yeah, I find it simply amusing.

And yeah, KatyAnn, in case you haven't noticed I have no respect for your anti-Israel views, your repeated attempt to descredit support for Israel and your advocacy of anti-Semitic teachings like Replacement Theology. I don't respect that kind of "theology" and it comes out in my response to you. I don't think you are a bad person at all; you are just caught up in some really goofy "theology."

It doesn't matter. You cannot engage the points that I raised. Whining about my amusement at your response is just a convenient way of scooting out the backdoor without having to engage them.

[kari21]

People like John Hagee and other evangical "leaders" are making millions off Israel, as is the military industrial complex and we send billions of dollars every year to Israel..someone is making a profit there. There are many who profit off Israel, if you would take the time to do the research you would see that.

And of course if Jerusalem was taken as a spoil people would become rich. Promising the people spoils was how medeivel Kings persuaded them to fight in the first place. Look at history...anytime a place has gone down someone has profited...hence the saying...to the victor go the spoils.

I guess when all else fails we could actually read the Bible.

Before you begin trying to correct other's, perhaps you should take a look at how you style your own responses.

Even my 10 year old understands how a decent person (especially one who calls himself a Christian) should address others.

So in the future, before you insult what others believe, take a deep look at your own self.

I have dozens of responses from you in dozens of threads here on worthy where you talk down to me as well as others (as is well known by many). Why should anyone take your theology seriously when you clearly show that you need a change of heart yourself. "You shall know them by their fruits."

I got the impression that Shiloh said that with tongue firmly in cheek. I believe that any Christian should take insults against Israel as seriously as God does. Israel is the apple of God's eye. So much so, that he will curse anyone who curses her. And getting cursed from God is no small matter.

Many times in these discussions, passions are inflamed. And in this case, having Jerusalem called the "whore" of babylon is a strike against something that is deeply loved by most Christians. And it seems rather odd that many insist that Jerusalem is that whore after it was mentioned by Shiloh (and myself a little while back) that this "whore" will be destroyed and made desolate - which the Bible clearly does not support for it's future in Revelation. Jesus will return to prevent that very thing from happening.

I can't speak for Shiloh. Again, I can only give my impressions. But if you'll note in the Bible, many servants of God were very sarcastic. Take Elijah and the Prophets of Baal in 1 Kings 18:21-39 for example. He taunted those priests by saying things like: "Cry aloud! Surely he is a god; either he is meditating, or he has wandered away, or he is pursuing (sitting on the toilet), or perhaps he is asleep and must be awakened."

Sarcasm can be used to awaken someone to a spiritual truth that they may otherwise refuse to hear.

[MrsSealedEternal]

I am just guessing on much of my post. However, I wouldn't be surprised that the UN could be used, but the USA would have to have been minimized or eliminated, as we have veto authority right now.

I have heard reports about that, which are supposed to result in a North American Union simular to a European Union model that would combine the currencies (perhaps they will call it the Amero?) on Canada, US, and Mexico. In part, I believe that is why illegal immigration from Mexico to America has been made so easy and is becoming such a front and center issue, to further erode our borders and blend our economies. I have also heard of plans being proposed to build a superhighway to further link these three economies referred to as NAFTA. I can't recall the exact details at the moment, but I believe that the UN has outlined a 10 region map of the kingdoms of the world. There's so much info out there about this kind of stuff, but in case you hadn't heard some of this, I thought I would mention a little more about it...I'll quit prattling on now.

I honestly cannot see the Arab nations gaining full dominion to rule over such a system, although I think it is realistic to think that they would need to be participating in it, and as far as I am concerned, they already are playing their part. Thanks for the clarification.

[nebula]

People like John Hagee and other evangical "leaders" are making millions off Israel, as is the military industrial complex and we send billions of dollars every year to Israel..someone is making a profit there. There are many who profit off Israel, if you would take the time to do the research you would see that.

KatyAnn, do you honestly believe that "John Hagee and other evangelical 'leaders'" constitute "the merchants of the earth"?

And are these men selling (literally or the modern equivalent of) "gold, silver, precious stones and pearls; fine linen, purple, silk and scarlet cloth; every sort of citron wood, and articles of every kind made of ivory, costly wood, bronze, iron and marble; . . . cinnamon and spice, of incense, myrrh and frankincense, of wine and olive oil, of fine flour and wheat; cattle and sheep; horses and carriages; and bodies and souls of men."?

And what of the ship captains and sailers?

17 "Every sea captain, and all who travel by ship, the sailors, and all who earn their living from the sea, will stand far off. 18 When they see the smoke of her burning, they will exclaim, 'Was there ever a city like this great city?' 19 They will throw dust on their heads, and with weeping and mourning cry out: "'Woe! Woe, O great city, where all who had ships on the sea became rich through her wealth! In one hour she has been brought to ruin!

What ships of the sea are becoming rich off of Jerusalem?

And of course if Jerusalem was taken as a spoil people would become rich. Promising the people spoils was how medeivel Kings persuaded them to fight in the first place. Look at history...anytime a place has gone down someone has profited...hence the saying...to the victor go the spoils.

The only people who want Jerusalem are the people of Israel and the Arabs. The Israelis want it for their heritage and some for their religion. The Arabs want it strictly for religion. The only "spoil", really, is the Temple mount. These are not the spoils mentioned in Rev. 18.

And I agree with what was pointed out:

"Why would the nations mourn over the destruction of Jerusalem when it is the nations who, according to Scripture, seek to destroy Israel in the first place?"

[Massorite]

At the time of Christ's ministry on earth, the nation of Israel was under Roman occupation - a non-believing secular power that did not recognise the sovereignty of God.

What we find today is not much different in what are labelled "democratic" nations - "governments" that do not govern with regard to God and His Word.

What is apparent from Scripture, is that a time is coming where Satan will be vanquished and He will reign over all the earth.

Thankfully the days of occupation by secular "democratic" "governments" are numbered.

That is right. At the time of Christ the Roman Empiror coverd 90% of the known world and in the future it will be the same.

[Massorite]

[The Woman = Jerusalem

OK - so why are the merchants of the earth mourning the destruction of Jerusalem?

vs. 3 - "...and the merchants of the earth grew rich from her excessive luxuries."

Since when was this descriptive of Jerusalem?

That is correct. The woman represents something more then just the city of Jerusalem. She is a world wide entity.

Well, I'll give this a shot. Keep your rope handy, you might want to lynch me when I am done )

The chariots shall rage in the streets, they shall justle one against another in the broad ways: they shall seem like torches, they shall run like the lightnings.

Nahum 2:4 (KJV)

If you or I lived in a day and age of horses and chariots, and we had a vision of modern interstate travel in automobiles, we might think that they "run like the lightnings". It's interesting that it says chariots but not horses here.

And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. 15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

Rev 13:14-15 (KJV)

The image of the beast (not the beast itself, but the image of it) has sight and speaks, and miracles to deceive are done "in the sight of the beast", so there is a limit to what the beast can do and what the beast sees.

And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Rev 19:20 (KJV)

The beast and the false prophet are alive (they are living beings). The image of the beast is not alive, but likely is a world wide system that the beast uses to expand and express his power.

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

2 Thess 2:3-12 (KJV)

The false prophet (a live being) likely points to the beast (also a live being) that expresses himself with lying wonders via the image of the beast that both sees and speaks, and has a world wide web of influence (hmmm, www...world wide web). I don't think machines ever become "self aware", but the devil might certainly use the future world wide web, artificial intellegence, virtual reality, satalite communications, and highly technoglical electronic monetary and monitoring systems to force all trade to be done via electronic funds transfers, forcing all to "take the mark of the beast" in order to buy, sell, or trade.

So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

Rev 17:3 (KJV)

The woman "sits" on the beast (if it is the same beast).

And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

Rev 17:16 (KJV)

The ten horns of the beast HATE the whore, make her desolate, eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. 13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

Rev 17:12-13 (KJV)

These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

Rev 17:14 (KJV)

The ten kings hate the whore and they also make war with the Lamb.

So, I think that the ten kings are muslim arab kingdoms (nations), the false prophet is the coming false muslim prophet, they hate the whore which seams to include the Catholic church but might be of a broader application, and the fall of corrupt religious, political, military, and economic authority will cause the diminishing of the control of the world wide web to fall into the hands of the beast. All Christian-like manifestations will be attacked and the "whore" aspect will be destroyed by the beast. The Lamb will overcome them though.

So there are three main players, and they are each different one from the other. The false prophet (a living being), the beast (a living being), and the whore (likely a system of religious evil). Also there is the image of the beast, another system that controls the economy, demands worship, and forces all to take the make of the beast.

Very Good. Although I don't agree with all of it. I have done much research and Yes in many prophecies the word "chariot" is speaking of a self propelled vehical with 4 wheels. Although many would scolff at that concept.

I do have a question for you. When these kings make war with the Lamb where is the Lamb? In heaven or on the earth?