How Were the Jews Saved?

[EricH]

Hebrews 4:1 Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it. 2 For we also have had the gospel preached to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because those who heard did not combine it with faith. 3 Now we who have believed enter that rest, just as God has said, "So I declared on oath in my anger, 'They shall never enter my rest.'" 3 And yet his work has been finished since the creation of the world. 4 For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: "And on the seventh day God rested from all his work." 5 And again in the passage above he says, "They shall never enter my rest." 6 It still remains that some will enter that rest, and those who formerly had the gospel preached to them did not go in, because of their disobedience.

And could the opposite be said for us? "The message they heard was of no value to them, because those who heard did not combine it with obedience."

This would not be a safe assumption, logically or scripturally

[Guest shiloh357]

Could we say that faith IS believing unto obedience?

No.

Faith (where salvation is concerned) is believing unto righteousness (Rom. 10:10). Obedience is the outworking of salvation and the evidence of faith.

[Pilgrim7]

Suzanne,

Paul sums it up fairly well in Galatians,

Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision avails any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which works by love.

By Faith one is 'born from above', the love of God is shed abroad in the his/her heart by the Holy Spirit and works flow as a result. It is not just faith, not just works and not just love. All three are combined as they were in Christ. Today we hear al lot about faith, not much about works and a lot about love. Jesus is our example of faith that works by love.

Rom 5:5 And hope makes not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

Eph 3:16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;

3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love,

3:18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;

3:19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that you might be filled with all the fulness of God.

3:20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that works in us,

With this love of God and His will, the works flow out of the believer, just as they flowed out of Jesus. This is the 'New Creation', re-created in the image of God, to do the works of God as demonstrated by Jesus.

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them.

Today many give lip service to this, but it is rarely seen. Yes these works include loving obedience to all the requirements of God. This is why they were saved, to leave their life of sin and rebellion and enter into a life of loving obedience. They have the laws of God written in their hearts, they love to do his will, yet the sinful nature will resist this new life.

The works have nothing to do with the justification process, but everything to do with the sanctification process, the growing into the full stature of men and women in Christ. Thus the works are part of the Salvation process, and if they are not seen in the life, then the person was either never saved, or has turned back to beggarly elements of life, and will be bundled with the tares for the burning.

Many believe that this happens automatically, as though the Christian is some sort of robot and is guaranteed of making the kingdom without these works of love, or God will see to it without their effort, but this is not the case. He is to use His will to abide in Christ so that his love will grow in righteousness and holiness. Thus works have very definite place in the salvation process. The carnal nature will resist him/her all along the way, there will be continual warfare between the flesh and the Spirit, but Scripture says that Christ always gives the victory to those who fight the good fight of faith.

So yes, they are to believe unto loving obedience. This is what repentance means, a turning from sin and disobedience, and trusting Jesus who now dwells in the heart, always making a way of escape from all temptation. This is why I gave myself to Jesus, for forgiveness of sin and a new heart of loving obedience to please Him in all things.

God bless you,

Dennis

[tsth]

Thank you Dennis. What a blessing those passages are, and your sharing of them!

You are right, Galatians 5:6, sums it up, because a faith without works is..............dead. (James 2:17)

The cruxt is always that it hasn't been one or the other, it is ALL of God's Word, working together in us. We cannot deny faith, anymore than we can turn from the obedience and good work that is wrought in us, that was prepared for us.

Wonderful post!

In His Love,

Suzanne

[tsth]

My point has been on these issues, that we cannot speak merely about "faith" all the time, and leave out the obedience issues. Which I get the distinct feeling many are doing, and are even opposed to speaking of. It is always welcomed to speak of faith, continuously, but almost taboo to speak of obedience. That is my contention. Why don't we speak of both just as freely, eagerly? As they come as a package deal.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Guest shiloh357]

My point has been on these issues, that we cannot speak merely about "faith" all the time, and leave out the obedience issues. Which I get the distinct feeling many are doing, and are even opposed to speaking of. It is always welcomed to speak of faith, continuously, but almost taboo to speak of obedience. That is my contention. Why don't we speak of both just as freely, eagerly? As they come as a package deal.

In His Love,

Suzanne

I feel that to be a misperception, generally speaking. What most of us are opposed to the teaching that obedience (works) are necessary for obtaining salvation.

I don't see that most folks are agaisnt talking about or teaching obedience, but are against the misapplication of obedience (works) in the life of a believer. Obedience is a response the work of salvation wrought in the heart of a Christian. Our obedience is the primary evidence of our salvation.

[tsth]

I feel that to be a misperception, generally speaking. What most of us are opposed to the teaching that obedience (works) are necessary for obtaining salvation.

And I would request that you find where that has been stated anywhere? For I do not believe that. Nor does Dennis, lest I couldn't be in agreement with him. That is why I DO agree with him, as he teaches, and readilly and willingly receives and accepts ALL of the counsel and teachings from the Word, without offense in any part of it, even "obedience". Which you and some others, seem to get riled over, when it is mentioned. And then, just like the above quote, you try to imply that someone has said it is for salvation, which is not true. This is what I don't understand. Why there always seems to be contention over the issue of obedience. It should be a regular topic of conversation among believers, right along with the topic of faith. There shouldn't be any prejudice over importance, as they both are very important issues with regard to a believer in Christ Jesus.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Guest shiloh357]

And I would request that you find where that has been stated anywhere? For I do not believe that. Nor does Dennis, lest I couldn't be in agreement with him.

I am not accusing you or Dennis or anyone in this thread of that, but there have been, on this board, those who believed that works are necessary for salvation.

Which you and some others, seem to get riled over, when it is mentioned.

No, what I get riled over is the condescending tone in which these subjects are usually introduced and when you refuse to answer plain and simple questions that are put to you.

You always introduce these subjects as if the rest of us are a bunch of godless pagans who lust after sin while YOU are standing as the only beacon of holiness standing against the tide of unrighteousness. You may not mean it that way, but that is how you come across.

Let me tell you something Suzanne... I am not trying to brag or exalt myself, but just to give you some perspective of who you are speaking to, I am almost 41 yrs old and still a virgin. I have never been drunk, I do not drink, a cigarrette has never touched my lips, nor has any tobacco product. I have never used any drugs like cocaine, pot, or whatever. I have never even touched a woman intimately. I have never been arrested and have no record. I have never stolen anything in my life. 90% of the people on this board could not relate to how I live. I am a faithful, tithe paying member of my church.

I have kept myself pure, and am more than qualified to discuss this issue. I live what I believe and I know all about the price and sacrifices that obedience to God brings with it.

You need to stop acting like the rest of us in the church are just a bunching sin-loving heathens. It gets really, really old.

[tsth]

Dear shiloh,

I would think that you would be rejoicing that someone else is encouraging an obedience to Christ. I personally find great comfort, when I am encouraged by the Word of God, to continue in following Him. There is no stumbling in encouragement to obey Christ. I am not offended by it, when I see posts by someone who promotes the righteousness of the Work of Christ Jesus in us! These are blessings! They are supposed to be an encouragement and blessing, shiloh. Not something to be angered by. We are supposed to promote the obedience that Christ Jesus works in us! This is the UNITY IN THE BODY! We are all supposed to grow up in this.

Matthew 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Guest HIS girl]

I have kept myself pure, and am more than qualified to discuss this issue. I live what I believe and I know all about the price and sacrifices that obedience to God brings with it.

I applaud you Shilo!