OneLight Posted December 13, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.22 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted December 13, 2007 No Brother, I am not going to ask you to provide scripture. What I believe is not plainly shown in the Bible, but it was shown to my by the Holy Spirit as I deeply questioned about the millions who had never heard the word, nor could ever hear it because of when and where they lived. One example would be a person in South America before Jesus was born. I do believe that God will judge the hearts of all men, not just punch a ticket and let them in because He MUST. I never implied that, and I do not judge any unsaved person. That is not my job and I never implied it was. When thinking about how I believe, please remember that I stated that God judges, not I, and He will allow who ever He wants into Heaven, not who we think should be allowed. All men will stand before God and be judged. This is scriptural. And about your last question, the Bible makes it very clear that anyone not found written in the Book of Life will be cast into the lake of fire. I am very surprised that you feel you have to ask me that question. OneLight The question I asked had one purpose and that was to confirm the premise that has led you to believe what you do. Your premise, and the premise of Christendom in general, says that the good go to heaven and the bad go to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutzrein Posted December 17, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 305 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/22/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/12/1950 Share Posted December 17, 2007 I think you missed the point OneLight. The text that you emboldened is not speaking of those who are the subject of this discussion. It is speaking of you - of Christendom. It is Christendom that stands on the wrong premise. It is Christendom that has misinterpreted scripture and now tries to find (even as other religions have done down through time) another way to God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damo1 Posted December 17, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,822 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/23/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/16/1967 Share Posted December 17, 2007 damo1 were is poor in spirit is he still on the boards or has he gone of again and left his topic hear this is what i have seen in this man he wil not answer any one honestly he will sit in judgment and then when people do ask him questions he throws in twisters i was just going threw this topic as i only have so much time before i pack my computer up and then head off and weight for my new disk to be sent to me so i can fire up my modem that the company i am with does not want me to send back i wil open up a new acount and set up a new inter net acount on friday so i am going to apply to as many posts as i can yet i will be near a computer at my friends place to see what is being said in this topic so has any one seen poor in spirit at all on the boards has he been in chat ? i wish he would stay and be also open to what is being said to him as one light my self and sevral others know what poor in spirit is like and i have been keeping this man in my prayers as i feel he is hear for a reason try not to argue among each other as this is one off poor in spirits skills he likes getting people fired up in the topics he sets in new topics just keep an eye out on new topics and you will see what i am talking about it did not take me long to work the man out have a heppy christmas every one and a happy new year may 2008 be a year were god moves in your lives i pray that you wil position your selves to were god can work threw you to be a blessing to those around you we have not got much time left on this earth lets make the best of it and share gods love to those that need it the most be at peace over the christmas season as you spend this with your familys i care for those that know me you guys are like family to me god bless from your brother in the lord damien stipic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
givennewname Posted December 17, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 324 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/29/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/16/1964 Share Posted December 17, 2007 Thus no one that never heard the Gospel, but died and went to Hell, God knew they would not have believed in the first place. But we can rest knowing that anyone.. no matter where... anyone that seeks God, will have the Gospel preached unto them as He has promised for all those that do seek Him. Amen. I should of not attacked you in anger. I have had a hard time with a few threads and what people believe, what they post and how they post it lately. Maybe I need a break from here, I don't know. I'll have to pray about it, but no matter what I decide, please accept my apology, my friend. Your Brother In Christ, Alan Dear brother, I understand how you feel and the frustration of having to reconcile the love of God on one hand, the mercy of God on the other. Maybe a few scriptures laid side by side will help. The book of Jonah illustrates the love and mercy of God for me very adequately. Maybe a synopsis of it at this stage would do well. Why did Jonah run away from God? Jon 1:1 Now the word of Jehovah came unto Jonah the son of Amittai, saying, Jon 1:2 Arise, go to Nineveh, that great city, and cry against it; for their wickedness is come up before me. Jon 1:3 But Jonah rose up to flee unto Tarshish from the presence of Jehovah; and he went down to Joppa, and found a ship going to Tarshish: so he paid the fare thereof, and went down into it, to go with them unto Tarshish from the presence of Jehovah. Jon 1:4 But Jehovah sent out a great wind upon the sea, and there was a mighty tempest on the sea, so that the ship was like to be broken. Some have suggested that Jonah ran away from God because he believed that the Assyrians were evil and deserved to be judged.some say that Jonah was nationalistic he believed that God is also nationalistic and reserved for the Jewssome say he ran away because of what the Assyrians would do to him in face of a hostile messagesome say that Jonah was afraid he would be labeled as a false prophet.When God spared Nineveh, Jonah was exceedingly angry and resentful. Why was Jonah resentful? Jon 4:1 But it displeased Jonah exceedingly, and he was angry. Jon 4:2 And he prayed unto Jehovah, and said, I pray thee, O Jehovah, was not this my saying, when I was yet in my country? Therefore I hasted to flee unto Tarshish; for I knew that thou art a gracious God, and merciful, slow to anger, and abundant in lovingkindness, and repentest thee of the evil. Jon 4:3 Therefore now, O Jehovah, take, I beseech thee, my life from me; for it is better for me to die than to live. Jon 4:4 And Jehovah said, Doest thou well to be angry? Jon 4:4 And Jehovah said, Doest thou well to be angry? He was angry because God was merciful that none should perish, even those he did chose. Therefore I hasted to flee unto Tarshish; for I knew that thou art a gracious God, and merciful, slow to anger, and abundant in lovingkindness, and repentest thee of the evil. Let's go back to the Book of kings to know why Jonah Knew God would spare the Assyrians: Jonah is Mentioned in the book of 2Kings very briefly 2Ki 14:25 He restored the border of Israel from the entrance of Hamath unto the sea of the Arabah, according to the word of Jehovah, the God of Israel, which he spake by his servant Jonah the son of Amittai, the prophet, who was of Gath-hepher. 2Ki 14:26 For Jehovah saw the affliction of Israel, that it was very bitter; for there was none shut up nor left at large, neither was there any helper for Israel. 2Ki 14:27 And Jehovah said not that he would blot out the name of Israel from under heaven; but he saved them by the hand of Jeroboam the son of Joash The reign of Jeroboam II of Israel was markedly idolatrous and wicked! despite the idolatry and wickedness, the Lord sent Jonah there to proclaim a message of prosperity and the situation went downhill from then in terms of wickedness. what Jonah was so unhappy about was that he was dealing with a God that rewards wickedness with mercy. why?? because God loves even the wicked and is a Just God! Jon 4:11 and should not I have regard for Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than six score thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle? Why did God spare Nineveh?? Because there was 60 thousand babies in that land, children who were not yet able to tell the difference between their right and left and hand, and because of that, God spared the great city of Nineveh. Back to the discussion: Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, and the truth, and the life: no one cometh unto the Father, but by me. Joh 14:7 If ye had known me, ye would have known my Father also: from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. There is no two ways about it. the Bible is very clear that those who do not know Jesus cannot be saved. Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom 1:17 For therein is revealed a righteousness of God from faith unto faith: as it is written, But the righteous shall live by faith. Yet the Bible says, even those that have not heard of the Bible are without excuse because God reveals himself through his creation, in the beauty of his creation. Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity; that they may be without excuse: I do not come from a christian home. In the past I was an idolater! I have not heard of God from my parents! Yet God chose me to be a christian! Rom 8:29 For whom he foreknew, he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: Rom 8:30 and whom he foreordained, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. New creature Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted December 17, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.22 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted December 17, 2007 I think you missed the point OneLight. The text that you emboldened is not speaking of those who are the subject of this discussion. It is speaking of you - of Christendom. It is Christendom that stands on the wrong premise. It is Christendom that has misinterpreted scripture and now tries to find (even as other religions have done down through time) another way to God. Yes, I know. Here is the first paragraph of my reply to you. I outlined in bold where we are talking about a different group of people. Those who can look at scripture are not the people I am referring to. As I mentioned, there have been millions who have had no scripture to look back to for guidance. They have never heard the word God before, not Jesus for that matter. They are completely ignorant of salvation. Never heard of it. Yet, they know, through creation, that there must be a "God", "Spirit", "Maker" ... what ever they chose to call God. These are those who I speak of. You, on the other hand, are talking about those of us who have the scriptures and know of God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and Salvation. We can read for ourselves and be taught by the Holy Spirit the truth that they never had. Please understand that I am not talking about those who had the ability to hear the word of God. If you will re-read everything that I had posted, you will see that I am talking about those who did not have this chance. OneLight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted December 17, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.22 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted December 17, 2007 God Bless you for your reply, givennewname/New creature. You are correct about those who had a chance to hear the word spoken about Jesus, but you also brought up my point: Yet the Bible says, even those that have not heard of the Bible are without excuse because God reveals himself through his creation, in the beauty of his creation. Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity; that they may be without excuse: How are those who know God through His creation are suppose to know about Salvation through Jesus when they were not living in the known world at that time? Did Jesus go to South America? Did the Gospel reach those living in the deepest parts of the world? Is it written on the sky? The rocks? The Trees? How?? They only know that God created everything and in their hearts, they understood this, which changed their hearts. I am speaking of those who are of this group. They may be far and few between, but it is my belief that there were some. This group, God will judge their hearts. We rightly stand firmly on the Word of God, but because of this, we have put blinders on so we will not be deceived. Yet, I personally believe that God is more then what we find between Genesis 1:1 and Revelation 22:21. Even John tells us in John 21:25 ... And there are also many other things that Jesus did, which if they were written one by one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that would be written. Amen. If just the things that Jesus did in his ministry on this earth is that large, one has to understand that all that God does is far greater. So great that our finite minds would never be able to hold it all. Your Brother In Christ, OneLight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutzrein Posted December 17, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 305 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/22/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/12/1950 Share Posted December 17, 2007 God Bless you for your reply, givennewname/New creature. You are correct about those who had a chance to hear the word spoken about Jesus, but you also brought up my point: Yet the Bible says, even those that have not heard of the Bible are without excuse because God reveals himself through his creation, in the beauty of his creation. Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity; that they may be without excuse: How are those who know God through His creation are suppose to know about Salvation through Jesus when they were not living in the known world at that time? Did Jesus go to South America? Did the Gospel reach those living in the deepest parts of the world? Is it written on the sky? The rocks? The Trees? How?? They only know that God created everything and in their hearts, they understood this, which changed their hearts. I am speaking of those who are of this group. They may be far and few between, but it is my belief that there were some. This group, God will judge their hearts. We rightly stand firmly on the Word of God, but because of this, we have put blinders on so we will not be deceived. Yet, I personally believe that God is more then what we find between Genesis 1:1 and Revelation 22:21. Even John tells us in John 21:25 ... And there are also many other things that Jesus did, which if they were written one by one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that would be written. Amen. If just the things that Jesus did in his ministry on this earth is that large, one has to understand that all that God does is far greater. So great that our finite minds would never be able to hold it all. Your Brother In Christ, OneLight Yes I believe I understand what you are saying. I understand that you are talking about the eternal destination of those who never had the opportunity to hear the gospel. And so am I. But I am talking about them from the perspective of those (ie yourself) who believe that they (those who haven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeCajunboy Posted December 18, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 113 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,430 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 33 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/24/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/28/1952 Share Posted December 18, 2007 No Brother, I am not going to ask you to provide scripture. What I believe is not plainly shown in the Bible, but it was shown to my by the Holy Spirit as I deeply questioned about the millions who had never heard the word, nor could ever hear it because of when and where they lived. One example would be a person in South America before Jesus was born. I do believe that God will judge the hearts of all men, not just punch a ticket and let them in because He MUST. I never implied that, and I do not judge any unsaved person. That is not my job and I never implied it was. When thinking about how I believe, please remember that I stated that God judges, not I, and He will allow who ever He wants into Heaven, not who we think should be allowed. All men will stand before God and be judged. This is scriptural. And about your last question, the Bible makes it very clear that anyone not found written in the Book of Life will be cast into the lake of fire. I am very surprised that you feel you have to ask me that question. OneLight I'm with you Light on this one. Also, I'm sure I recently read scripture (I believe it to be in Matthew) where God said, "And every man will know me." And I have to admit that there was nothing very direct,as many thoughts we find are not as clear as they could be, but I too was told by my spriit at a very young age that I would be instructed to follow Jesus and learn a great deal through people like you all and in the Bible. Well, 6 Bibles later, I'm beginning to trust those instincts within me when it comes to statements like this. Fact is, "God knows everyman's heart and soul. And HE certainly knows the goodnes in every man. I believe that when we follow Jesus and God's commands what we are strictly doing is NOT going against HIS commands and learning to love our fellow man, be he good or bad. Many Blessings Cajunboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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