Calvin vs. Arminius

[EricH]

I have not read the thread, but Open Theism is a more biblical, coherent free will theism. Deterministic Calvinism is off track. Arminianism is closer, but wrong about exhaustive definite foreknowledge and 'eternal now'.

Right on Brother

Isn't it good to know that your relationship with Him is TRULY sincere and not contrived?

Just to clarify, Open Theism is not considered to be othodox.

[Bold Believer]

Jesus is either Lord OF all or not Lord AT all. He has the right to whatever he likes. We as creations cannot say to God 'you can't do that!'. Just because WE puny little humans don't understand why God does some things doesn't mean that His sovereignty is not absolute and awesome in its scope.

As for what I call the "boo-hoo" argument against Calvinism (Why would god create a child just to kill it), don't blame God. Blame Adam. Adam brought sin into this world through disobedience. Sin has corrupted our world, bringing disease and tragedy. God had nothing to do with that. It's a straw man argument.

[JCISGD]

Dont know about others, but when i want to subscribe/buy into something i look around at whats working and has lasting results.

So its not Calvinism or Armeinism, its what works. Whoevers theology produces victory over sin, the salvation of souls, ministry unblemished and always brings Glory to GOD.

Some like to think they keep it simple and dont have a theology, buts thats naieve. "As a man THINKS in his heart, so he IS".

Christians let us not continue reinventing the wheel but learn from those who been before us, and standing on their shoulders go on to do greater things.

And again " Do not remove the ancient landmarks ". Friends it appears many are full of spiritual pride, shunning what they call the teachings of man,and claiming they only need God. The bible clearly states we need the WHOLE BODY of CHRIST. Yes the Bible is infailable but were are not.

First we follow Christ and the leading of Holy Spirit who reveals wisdom and truth, and also says go here and not there. Other times H/S says read such and such and learn from it. Surely its tempting God to avoid learning from others proven record and extensive time spent to record and publish great helps for us, and then on our knees we say "please show me how to better serve you". WHAT? you now want GOD to spend his time explaining a hundred page teaching that you could already have. Away with you, or do you think your so special as to be afforded more than all else?

I dont mean to sound harsh, but to show up some rediculous tendencies. In Christ` love Arthur.

[Ovedya]

I do not know what you're driving at.

Actually it's been so long that I forgot!

I think my point was that God is no longer in the business of creation. In Genesis God placed the cycles of life in motion, then said, "Go forth...."

[Sir Gareth]

I have a question for all the calvinists who say that God forces his will on people and rejects others with no reason.

I have seen alot of you posting that 'God's plan is perfect and no one can reject his plan'

Exepct for Satan, Adam, The Sodomites, and millions of people around the world.

If God forces himself on us and gives us no free will, how is it he just did not say to Adam 'You will not touce the tree of knowlege' and Adam did not say 'Yes master, I have no free will therefore I shall not touch it'?

Calvinism fails to explain the fall, unless we were given free will, as the bible clearly demonstrates.

Just because God is all knowing and knows if you will accept the gospel before you live does not mean he made you do it. While I agree that God is well aware of all that will ever happen that does not mean he is making it happen. While I do beleive that he can and will intercede at times (such as with Paul's conversion) that does not mean he is some cosmic puppet master using us for some kind of sick entertainment.

[Ovedya]

I don't ascribe to the view that hell is only temporary, based upon a contemporary hermeneutic of the word "aeon."

But that's another thread.....

[kjn]

I do not know what you're driving at.

Actually it's been so long that I forgot!

I think my point was that God is no longer in the business of creation. In Genesis God placed the cycles of life in motion, then said, "Go forth...."

Even so, isn't He still the ultimate source of any human that comes into existence?

[Doowopjock]

I always thought Mary and Martha were the first-ever Calvinist and Arminian, respectively. Mary was entranced by Jesus's words as if nothing else could possibly matter while Martha was scurrying around trying to "DO" things. Jesus said Mary had chosen "the better part, the one thing needful". I never figured there was a way for me to "keep" myself saved anyway, since I never knew how to save myself in the first place. But I believe Jesus knows how. I guess that makes me a Calvinist..?? (asking)

[Shiloh62]

I don't understand the question.

[Doowopjock]

In other words, I'm not trying to "DO" anything to "keep" myself saved. I'm trying to comply with God's will because of a spontaneous reaction to His love for me as expressed in Jesus, but ONLY in His strength and in His power (not of my own strength or power, which I consider to be non-existent--or at least, insufficient--to such a task). It's true that every time the Holy Spirit does something through me, He always pats me on the back, as it were, and tells me I "did" a good job. But He and I both know Who really does the "doing"--of anything. I don't argue with Him--I DO thank Him, not only for doing what He has done through me but also for giving me credit that I still believe belongs totally to Him. But I know how easy it is for me to get carried away in some sort of vainglory. For me to credit myself with anything I know He has done for me, by me, through me, is a thin-ice area. I appreciate and accept the credit for same that He gives me, but I keep it in a certain place within myself where it is readily available to return to Him--the rightful Owner of it--at a moment's notice. Even what ability I have to do this also comes from Him.

I "hope" that makes sense--it does to me, but I'm not sure how it sounds to someone else. I just don't know another way to say all of that.