Calvin vs. Arminius

[Dennis1963]

I am shocked to see that 70% of the votes went to "100% Calvinist - TULIP all the way!"

Interesting.

[OneLight]

I am shocked to see that 70% of the votes went to "100% Calvinist - TULIP all the way!"

Interesting.

You are incorrect, it was 70 votes, which is 34.48%.

[Dennis1963]

I am shocked to see that 70% of the votes went to "100% Calvinist - TULIP all the way!"

Interesting.

You are incorrect, it was 70 votes, which is 34.48%.

Yes, I see that now, thanks for the correction. Still just as shocked.

[OneLight]

I am shocked to see that 70% of the votes went to "100% Calvinist - TULIP all the way!"

Interesting.

You are incorrect, it was 70 votes, which is 34.48%.

Yes, I see that now, thanks for the correction. Still just as shocked.

Why is that?

[Dennis1963]

I am shocked to see that 70% of the votes went to "100% Calvinist - TULIP all the way!"

Interesting.

You are incorrect, it was 70 votes, which is 34.48%.

Yes, I see that now, thanks for the correction. Still just as shocked.

Why is that?

Because Calvinism is not that popular.

[pokemaughan]

there is nothing about armenianism that puts man before God. but i have real problems with the idea that God picked and chose who he would allow to be redeemed before they were born. that isn't a loving God. God's desire is for ALL to know and serve Him, freely of their own accord. scripture says "whosoever shall believe in me", not "whosoever I've selected to believe in me".

Romans 9. Also, arguing out of English words is a mistake, seeing as well, they're not Greek. I'd challenge you to be careful with that sort of research, make sure it's founded on literally rock-solid Words, rather than man's interpretation of those Words.

...and the dead horse may sleep again

[Albert Finch]

Calvinism is about waiting for God to announce or fulfill His plans and telling the believer what to do to implement His purposes. Since (according to Calvinistic doctrine) the fulfillment of all of God's plans have been pre-ordained since before the beginning of the world (the end result of all of His plans being known and planned by God in advance and also the exact way each and all of these plans are to be fulfilled.)

So it is wrong to be spiritually actuated by inspiration, vision, inventiveness, creativity, insight, revelation, or spiritual ideas since these may not be coming from God and therefore may be in conflict with God's plans and purposes. Based on this one can only ascertain that the role of the born-again believer is to wait for God to call Him (since God knows his address).

Since God knows where each and every believer is at all times and how to get in touch with them then it would be wrong for the believer to act in any spiritual capacity without positively knowing that the idea came from God. Since that is hard to discern and may be risky it would be theologically safer to do nothing.

Matthew 24:25,30 -- "So I was afraid, and I went and hid your talent in the ground. Here you have what is your own. So take the talent away from him and give it to the one who has the ten talents. And throw the good-for-nothing servant into the outer darkness; there will be weeping and grinding of teeth."

Albert Finch

www.thekeys2kingdom.com

Edited August 1, 2009 by Albert Finch

[pokemaughan]

Calvinism is about waiting for God to announce or fulfill His plans and telling the believer what to do to implement His purposes. Since (according to Calvinistic doctrine) the fulfillment of all of God's plans have been pre-ordained since before the beginning of the world (the end result of all of His plans being known and planned by God in advance and also the exact way each and all of these plans are to be fulfilled.)

So it is wrong to be spiritually actuated by inspiration, vision, inventiveness, creativity, insight, revelation, or spiritual ideas since these may not be coming from God and therefore may be in conflict with God's plans and purposes. Based on this one can only ascertain that the role of the born-again believer is to wait for God to call Him (since God knows his address).

Since God knows where each and every believer is at all times and how to get in touch with them then it would be wrong for the believer to act in any spiritual capacity without positively knowing that the idea came from God. Since that is hard to discern and may be risky it would be theologically safer to do nothing.

Matthew 24:25,30 -- "So I was afraid, and I went and hid your talent in the ground. Here you have what is your own. So take the talent away from him and give it to the one who has the ten talents. And throw the good-for-nothing servant into the outer darkness; there will be weeping and grinding of teeth."

Albert Finch

www.thekeys2kingdom.com

Hey I can agree with that in a simple way, very admirable

[Rhonda Lou]

Calvinism is about waiting for God to announce or fulfill His plans and telling the believer what to do to implement His purposes. Since (according to Calvinistic doctrine) the fulfillment of all of God's plans have been pre-ordained since before the beginning of the world (the end result of all of His plans being known and planned by God in advance and also the exact way each and all of these plans are to be fulfilled.)

So it is wrong to be spiritually actuated by inspiration, vision, inventiveness, creativity, insight, revelation, or spiritual ideas since these may not be coming from God and therefore may be in conflict with God's plans and purposes. Based on this one can only ascertain that the role of the born-again believer is to wait for God to call Him (since God knows his address).

Since God knows where each and every believer is at all times and how to get in touch with them then it would be wrong for the believer to act in any spiritual capacity without positively knowing that the idea came from God. Since that is hard to discern and may be risky it would be theologically safer to do nothing.

Matthew 24:25,30 -- "So I was afraid, and I went and hid your talent in the ground. Here you have what is your own. So take the talent away from him and give it to the one who has the ten talents. And throw the good-for-nothing servant into the outer darkness; there will be weeping and grinding of teeth."

Albert Finch

www.thekeys2kingdom.com

Just out of curiosity, how do you explain these verses in the Bible?

[pokemaughan]

Just out of curiosity, how do you explain these verses in the Bible?

...

One of those which relates here has to do with free will. As I look at the Bible, Adam had a choice. The Isrealites whom God was around all of the time as an ark, a pillar of fire, a cloud, visions, prophets, whatever -- they had a choice. The believers have a choice and are told to live by the Spirit (inwardly) as opposed to the flesh. Unbelievers -- all they HAVE is flesh. THe Holy Spirit can work in their lives, but not IN them, they are dead in their sins. alien to God and strangers. God must first draw them. Those who have HEARD the gospel can choose to believe. I still believe, based on the above Scriptures, that God chooses who to save, and God works for that salvation, but ultimately, we do need to say yes. So, though I believe in predestination to the fullest and believe it has a much higher priority than free will, no person is saved until they actually say yes, so free will IS the final step towards salvation.

Excellent post Rhonda,

I think when it comes down to it, the really knit-picky verses that are swayed by one's own interpretation of the context and words, it's extremely, if not impossible, to know for sure. However I do feel it is proper to feel firm and confident in what you believe in. That being said, you present your interpretation very well and I admire that.